Multitracks - Do you, as a player, use them?

[Karmeleaux]

(apologies if this should go elsewhere and/or has been posted before, I tried searching and didn't find anything myself)

 

So, I've got multitracks of a few songs I've worked on and I'm working on, but I've just started bothering with with non-Steam versions, so I thought I'd feel this out. Adding non-Steam versions takes just the effort of clicking a few checkboxes and increased downloads of each song by about 25%, though at least some of that is probably just Steam users who didn't see it before now seeing it on the front page.

 

I primarily make customs for myself foremost so I don't bother with multitracks; especially because I try to stay away from stuff that would be immensely popular because I don't have confident in my ability to make the tones sound passable, and even moreso if they're all you're hearing.

 

But if there's an appreciable chunk of people here who enjoy multitracks, especially people who will check out stuff they don't know because it has multitracks, I'll take a stab at it. Really, I'll probably cave and do it at some point regardless, but I'd make it more of a priority in that case. In addition, I'm just kinda curious.

 

If you feel your position cannot be summed up in one of the poll choices, feel free to respond.

[Attitude]

I'm an idiot and completely misunderstood your question. As far as the isolated tracks go, I think I would rather just play the song as a whole. But I can see isolated tracks being very useful. As far as only releasing pc versions. I do that rather than have 4 times the space taken up on my Dropbox as is really needed. The end user can very easily convert the file using the Rocksmith Toolkit.

[Karmeleaux]

Wow, you are confusing the heck put of me. I assume by multitracks you mean multiple parts and yes generally a more complete custom would get more attention. Even if it is a one guitar band in real life he usually lays down a rhythm track that can still he heard behind the leads. That and including bass since we have many bass only players. If by Steam version you mean oc and mac, well yes I don't include Xbox and PS3 versions because that can very easily be done by the end user. And simply makes a CDLC take up 4 times as much room on my dropbox than what is really needed. Some lead parts even have a second track behind them in a solo, played higher or lower but them same pattern, I include those if possible. Also bands like Iron Maiden the guitarists switch off solos constantly. So yes more parts equals better customs, usually.

Sorry, the Steam version bit at the beginning was just kinda me rambling off on a tangent, I have a habit of doing that, I think it stems back to when I was a child I was bitten by a goat.

 

But I was talking about multitracks as in the separate recordings of the individual instruments. Like versions some people have where (in addition to full band versions) there's versions with no guitar and/or bass audio, what you play is what you hear guitar and/or bass-wise on those.

[Karmeleaux]

. . .

Very well stated, definitely understand where you're coming from. I mean, the reason I have multitracks for most of the songs I've charted/charting is because I'm not terribly confident in my charting ability unless I have the isolated tracks to double check.

 

Really, it's kinda moot to ask about this because it's honestly not MUCH effort, it's doing the whole Wwise deal three times instead of one, but for some reason that's my least favorite part of the process so it does detract from my willingness a bit.

 

Much more I'm genuinely curious about people's opinions, and you gave a lot of insight into the mindset of someone who prefers them.

[Moomins]

I haven't had a chance to really try them yet, but can you load multiple 'versions?' as different songs? Or can you only have one version 'installed' at a time.

 

I'm assuming a no-bass track is good to do as bass so you only hear yourself play, is that simple intent?

[Karmeleaux]

I haven't had a chance to really try them yet, but can you load multiple 'versions?' as different songs? Or can you only have one version 'installed' at a time.

 

I'm assuming a no-bass track is good to do as bass so you only hear yourself play, is that simple intent?

Now I haven't done it myself so I may be wrong, but I believe so long as the songs have different internal DLC names (and external filenames, obviously) one should be able to have them all installed at one time.

 

And yes, the idea is you're able to hear exactly what you're playing without 'competing' with the original track, as a lot of people phrase it.

[YLedbetter]

Why have I never heard of this. I must try it!

[Xstatic]

I never knew this was a thing till this post either.  It does sound like it would make things like songs with quiet bass easier to chart.

[Karmeleaux]

Why have I never heard of this. I must try it!

 

 

I never knew this was a thing till this post either.  It does sound like it would make things like songs with quiet bass easier to chart.

http://multitrackdownloads.blogspot.com/2012/03/what-multitracks-are-and-how-to-open.html

 

While not a fully comprehensive list of all of the masters you can find lying around, it's definitely a good and accessible collection if you download from the MegaUpload files, which I recently verified were still working. Note that songs from GH1 (outside of bonus tracks) were all covers, all of GH2 was as well (except four main setlist songs and the bonus songs), a small portion of GH3 and RB1 were (as was a small bit of RB1 DLC), and everything in and past GHWT/RB2 was all masters (well I think GHWT had one cover as DLC, and both had some re-records by the original band that nevertheless took some minor liberties). Still, even the covers are largely pretty accurate and might give you a better idea of a part you're unsure about.

 

If nothing else, it's definitely like super-fascinating just to listen to them and really get a handle on what was happening. And if you have a program like Melodyne editor, you can actually take a pretty good stab at making a tab for a song that doesn't have a Guitar Pro file yet (I'm intending to do a few like that way down the road, but I get super easily distracted so no promises).

 

I'll be honest, I kinda forget that a lot of the community here probably wasn't as heavily involved as I was in the Guitar Hero/Rock Band (mostly Rock Band, mmm Rock Band) movement. In fact, I was so heavily involved I charted some songs for bands that were released for purchase through the Rock Band Network.

 

 

Good times. (I'm intending to release every song I got masters to this way as CDLC at some point because it's the only way I see a lot of these happening but super easily distracted so who knows when)

[NoonyDeloony]

I use ultimate guitar tabs a fair bit and the guitar pro has the use of multi tracks, I love it for trickier bass lines, it really gives you a better sense of the rhythm and melody on bass, which is usually very different to what the rest of the band plays. The Duran Duran track is a great example of the differing technicality. The little flourishes that occur, which can sometimes be drowned out by the rest of the music when trying to learn the phrases benefit greatly from being able to single out the instrument sections you want to hear. :) Cheers for the link @@Karmeleaux

[not_sleeping]

 

Really, I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would prefer normal DLC to multitracked DLC when the latter tends to contain a "normal" version anyway. I guess it is down to ignorance of what a multtrack version is.

 

I haven't played any Rocksmith in a while and just came back here today to see if any new Beatles songs had been posted.  I am pysched out of my mind to see some Beatles multi-tracks, especially for Something.

 

I agree with you...I can't imagine why on earth people wouldn't like this.  If you want to play with the full band, you can.  If you want to duck the lead guitar track, you can.  How awesome is that!?  Track ducking was the missing link in this "game", especially compared to BandFuse, and now we have it.  I am going to go play for hours right after this post.  I'm also going to see what other multi-track Beatles files I can find out there.  Having the Rocksmith custom chart is nice, but the really awesome part is just having access to the multi-track recordings.

[Karmeleaux]

Well I mean, I know what multi-tracks are, and I currently still just grab the 'full band' version in multi-track ones that interest me. It's in part just for uniformity with official DLC, as well as the fact that Rocksmith just doesn't have a great sorting or grouping system right now so no guitar and/or bass versions are going to largely be clutter, as although I use the game as a learning tool I'm still super easily distracted and jump around from song to song rather than sitting down and really focusing on one.

 

I love having multi-tracks on my computer just to examine and reference, but to me personally right now it's more of an inconvenience to make and use than to not bother. As I said, I likely will change my charting habits at some point in the future and I may come around to using them to practice as well, but currently it's just not an appealing option to me.

[todtod]

Good to see this topic started as I'm curious to get a sense of how people view multitracks. I just looked that the poll results, showing that ~55% show an interest in multitracks format. That's not a high number and I know the participation rate is still low. But its rather telling and I don't know if peope are just unaware that is exist or generally don't care for it. Hope lots of people respond with their opinions. I personally love it over because I feel that I am part of the band, not some wannabe playing along. BTW to those of you who think multitracks just means pushing out Wwise three times, its just not that simple. On a different note (no pun intended!), I was encouraged to see another charter who yesterday released his first multitrack!

 

I'll be checking this thread regularly.

 

Cheers!

[Womac911]

As a player, I use multitracks very often. Since 2010, I've buitl a collection of multitracks around 50-60 GB, maybe larger. 

 

 For DLC creators, using the multitrack as a reference, at least, will alow them to adjust guitar parts, since it is much easier to hear the guitar when ONLY the guitar is playing.  What that a slide or a pull-off?  Now you can hear it clearly. 

  I also use multitracks to make backing tracks, which is something I would like to see is RS. Playing "over" something is all fine and dandy, but playing "with" a band is where it's at.

Here's soemthing I recorded a few days ago -- every electric guitar is mine.

https://soundcloud.com/wolfemacleod/foreplay-48000-mixdown

 

 

 

  I also use them as art of my daily job, which is, basically, advising people on tone and characteristics of thier guitars, and how to get the most out of them.

 

 

[sleepy]

I've just downloaded my first multitrack, but I'm a convert. I'll be downloading the multitrack version of any song (if available) from now on. Being able to hear myself (and only myself) while playing along in Rocksmith is invaluable.

 

Also, @, that isolated bass on Rio is nuts! Who knew there was actually that much going on?!

 

 

sleepy

[Karmeleaux]

Always good to hear more insight. Here's a bit of a follow-up question for some people:

 

As I said in my rambling first post, I admit a large part of why I'm hesitant to release multitrack versions is I'm very inexperienced with creating tones and I feel that might detract from the value of hearing one's self if one's own playing sounds kinda crappy (in tone, not in ability).

 

So I guess to kinda help me determine when to make multi-track versions: Has anyone played a multi-track where they feel the tone is noticeably (not necessarily painfully, but definitely 'this isn't quite right') off from the original recording but still found it more valuable to hear one's self over the dissonance?

[Azrael]

Just to put one thought out there with regard to...

I can't imagine why on earth people wouldn't like this.

 

One of the major reasons why RS is superior to learning just from tabs is that you can exactly hear what you are supposed to be playing. After intense playing for a couple of month, I get the feeling that I start to hear where my fingers are supposed to go (which is super awesome).

Because of this, multitracks are not great for the purpose of learning the song. And maybe this is one reason why so many people voted for "no".

 

Of course, having the choice to play with the band on your own when you have learned the song is extremely valuable. So as long as the full versions are still released, there really is no reason for complaint or saying "no" to multitracks.

 

Regards,

Azrael

[not_sleeping]

 

As I said in my rambling first post, I admit a large part of why I'm hesitant to release multitrack versions is I'm very inexperienced with creating tones and I feel that might detract from the value of hearing one's self if one's own playing sounds kinda crappy (in tone, not in ability).

 

In my case, I always set my in-game guitar volume to 0 and play through my amp.  I like having to think about how I would approximate the tone of the song outside of the game.

 

Just to put one thought out there with regard to...

I can't imagine why on earth people wouldn't like this.

 

One of the major reasons why RS is superior to learning just from tabs is that you can exactly hear what you are supposed to be playing. After intense playing for a couple of month, I get the feeling that I start to hear where my fingers are supposed to go (which is super awesome).

Because of this, multitracks are not great for the purpose of learning the song. And maybe this is one reason why so many people voted for "no".

 

 

I sort of agree.  If you have never heard a song before, or even if you've heard, but just haven't played it much yet, then having the studio guitar track to guide you is helpful.  But if you really want to be able to play the song outside of the game, then having the original guitar muted helps you to really listen to yourself and listen to the backing band for your cues.  Multi-track plus no Rocksmith chart of course is even better at forcing you to learn it.  We're lucky to have so many tools in the toolbox these days.

[TomSawyer2112]

Thanks for the Multitracks thread. I call it

"No more hiding behind the artists",

 

You don't play with them, or behind them, you replace one of them,

Just one step before being able to play before an audience.

DD won't make any sense.

 

Rocksmith is too permitting if you miss a note in a rhythm part, or if you are a little late or early.

Making 90% doesn't mean an outstanding performance.

The main flaw of Rocksmith is that it allows to get used to play badly, without telling you

 

Multitrack gives you a "What you hear is what you play"

 

Every time I play a multitrack, I blow up my best score (usually by 5-10%). It's so more motivating.

I guess I'm taking more care to respect the rhythm with more focus on clean finger positions and notes playing.

 

A no Bass track is a must and can be done easily (no problem with adequate tone)

Bass notes are easier to play, and even if missing or stop playing, it's not spoiling the song.

To only hear your own bass is invaluable.

 

Charting a bass only track helps the Charter.

He doesn't have to ask himself : was this a bass note or a drum ? 

Guitar or bass only tracks are fun to play too, for testing if the notes or tuning are right.

(I published them in "Hard to see")

 

Disadvantages : 

 

1.Guitar and Rhythm track may interfere with one another, or even appear in vocals. (no way to do a clean multitrack version)

2.Tones must come close to the original. (takes longer efforts)

3.Charter must keep to the track, he can't skip to an nice solo or riff, because nothing is playing the notes he left out. 

 

Music may seem "flatter" than the original, due to separating tracks by plugins, when no studio tracks available

 

Charting : 

 

It takes longer to chart, needs some organisation when starting:

All tracks, no bass, lead, rhythm track should be converted with identical silence in ogg files, save in the EOF song folder

Same for wem files in the Toolkit.

 

To make them all listed in RS : 

different names must be used in the song information (adding nobass nolead, DD...) in the toolkit,

 

Each version should be saved under a different toolkit name (makes it easy to regenerate the .psarc)

 

Only changing the .wem file in the Toolkit doesn't change the ID numbers. And then only one track will appear in RS.

So either you reload each arrangement, or you change their ID manually by changing one number in the 2 Id codes

 

To avoid confusion to the user :

The no-bass track should only leave the option of bass playing. Same for lead and for rhythm.

 

Starting this way makes it hardly more difficult to chart than any regular track.

 

In another thread, it was mentioned that Rocksmith supports different music tracks, multitracks in a single .psarc file

But the Toolkit doesn't, yet. I don't know if they consider doing this, given the still limited interest.

 

I did 2 multitracks : Hard to see & Lazy Eye Bass

The reason why I did not yet release a Lazy Eye multitrack for Guitar lies in the 3 main disadvantages noted above.

 

Multitrack is still underestimated : here my dl statistics

 

Hard to See (regular track update) : 240dl

(no) -bass : 7dl

(no) -lead : 14dl

 

Lazy Eye (regular track) : 360dl

(no) -bass : 24dl 

 

Multitrack versions should be tagged "multitracks", so everybody finds them quickly.

 

There is also a guitarbacking track ( I love rock'n roll)

Backing tracks are available at http://www.guitarbackingtrack.com

The difference?  they may be cover version of the song

[Edward]

I used to do this pre-Rocksmith, had all the GH/RB games, used to put the game into training mode, then rip the song from my PS3 to PC using the line in, export it to MP3, then you have an isolated track to play along with :) Was disappointed when RS came out to find they weren't proper mutli-track backing songs. Being able to download all the mutli-tracks much better than recording them one at a time :S

[Alex360]

I will add Support for separate audio files for each non-vocal arrangement ASAP. I see you guys really need this feature, stay tuned :)

[TomSawyer2112]

I get the feeling that I start to hear where my fingers are supposed to go (which is super awesome).

 

Regards,

Azrael

 

That is called Automatisation. It's the purpose of learning.

The more you repeat the same notes, the less you have to direct your fingers.

It's becoming reflexes, unaware movements.

That's the way to get fast, not needing to tell each finger what to do!

 

It's like soccer coordination training with an agility ladder.

The Fretboard is nothing else but an agility ladder for fingers.

 

And the younger you are, the faster the automatisation process.

You should have started at 10. At 12 the brains starts to loose his ability 

to automise, and at 50 ...

 

Sorry to drift away from the multitrack subject

[Rarity]

I have several multi-track piece of CDLC, but they basically go ignored. Typically my guitar is set slightly louder than the song to begin with, but it's nice to be able to hear the track in-game in case there's something I need to listen and make sure I'm playing correctly. Beyond that, I play in multiplayer a lot, and missing a correct backing audio for a song is a great way to make sure my friends who don't already know the song are going to be completely lost haha.

[Dthos]

Just a Late 2 cents here, I am really getting in to playing bass lately, and I create my own customs from The Hal Leonard books, I has more of a Jam/Practice feel to them and yes I can tell how I play.

[spellbound]

Does anyone have a list of "multi-track" customs available here or  know of an easy way to find them?.... I am interested in checking them out ....They seem like a great Idea now that I know what they actually are lol.....Thanks

[Azrael]

Does anyone have a list of "multi-track" customs available here or  know of an easy way to find them?.... I am interested in checking them out ....They seem like a great Idea now that I know what they actually are lol.....Thanks

 

When I type "multitrack" into the search box, it gives me 30 results. ;)

(searching for "multitracks" only gives 29 results...)

 

I don't know if thats all of them, though.