Rocksmith 2014 Championship Week 69

[Mortalo]

@@then3verend My inner guitarist can't agree more with your rates. We were scoring bass really low, mostly because there is not many difficult bass songs, like this weeks guitars of Canon Rock. Bands tend to use bass just for rhythm, and many great bass players had many easy songs, like Muse guy this week, or Metallica guys many times.

After some changes, we started to rate songs and sort them, so hardest one is in highest class. I encourage you to find songs with tough bass, prioritizing it (still, it would need guitar). It would be just impossible to select and manage bass only song. I can change how I'm selecting song, starting with highest rated bass, so MC could have better challenge. Then I would look at that song lead (or rhythm) path, and would select 3 songs for remaing lead guitar classes. But that would need high level bass songs with guitar parts. And they are scarce (at least in my taste).

[CorgiBootyy]

I completely agree with Neverend on needing to make some changes to the bass classes. Whether it's how we rate songs, or giving MC Bass it's own song because it's deserving when at least 2 of us can consistently sightread 100%s and mostly everyone else easily sightreads at least 97% in MC Bass. While the MC in Lead and Rhythm for the week generally start in the 70-80% range and by the end of the week the players can get them up to around 90-95%. I start to get bored because I can sightread the songs and don't get challenged by them. That's why I do MM when I like the song because I'll likely play it on my own away from the game, personally I don't like the "radio friendly" Megadeth, so I wouldn't have fun learning this song.

I'll be looking through my downloads and picking out some songs I think would be tougher and actually challenging to 100% over the next while and adding them to the song list. But there really isn't all that much that I think suits the other classes because most of the challenging stuff is generally bass solo stuff that I can think of. (Or ODLC)

 

http://i.imgur.com/UtJCmzC.png

[Mortalo]

And that's a problem with bassists. When we have great guitarist, we still get bass, but many times it's extremely easy (Canon Rock this week). Dragonforce guys can make Nacholede scratch his head, but they hate MilkmanDan and don't have bass. And then great bassists cdlc lack guitar. And bass has such great sound, it's a pity.

[CorgiBootyy]

And that's a problem with bassists. When we have great guitarist, we still get bass, but many times it's extremely easy (Canon Rock this week). Dragonforce guys can make Nacholede scratch his head, but they hate MilkmanDan and don't have bass. And then great bassists cdlc lack guitar. And bass has such great sound, it's a pity.

That basically sums up the problem for bass haha. As for Lead, I think Super Collider fits in perfectly in Advanced, some chords (albeit easy chords) But I think the solo is a pretty good level for Advanced players such as myself if I look into it a bit. The Rhythms a little easy, but it's supposed to be easier in the fact that it isn't throwing in the tough fills and solos, so I'd say it's fitting, although haven't tried the other songs.

 

http://i.imgur.com/Eeakb6v.png

http://i.imgur.com/9E2zkia.png

[Nacholede]

Talking about bass: 

I choose Dream Theater songs because they are a great challenge for both guitar and bass

Myung is a beast on the bass, and you could see it on Octavarium, or Metropolis Pt.1

And besides, the Instrumedley is great because is a very well done Dream Theater medley, and a tough challenge for both paths

I'm still waiting for my song for being chosen :D

Pic very related:

http://i.imgur.com/3JaoC.jpg

[CorgiBootyy]

@@Nacholede The only problem with Dream Theater is that Myung uses 5-string bass. Which also brings up another problem, that many good bass songs in progressive bands such as Dream Theater, Protest the Hero (Awesome challenging bass lines off of Fortress album, but all 5-string), etc. all are using 5-string, which is extremely unideal for most of us without 5-strings (Mr. bass myself included)

[Nacholede]

@@Nacholede The only problem with Dream Theater is that Myung uses 5-string bass. Which also brings up another problem, that many good bass songs in progressive bands such as Dream Theater, Protest the Hero (Awesome challenging bass lines off of Fortress album, but all 5-string), etc. all are using 5-string, which is extremely unideal for most of us without 5-strings (Mr. bass myself included)

That's another problem for guitar players too. Sometimes Petrucci uses 7-string guitars and tuning down sometimes is a problem for some people. Well...not for myself (I got hybrid Strings, 0.11 and 0.10), so down-tuning is not a problem. And always Heavy gauge strings are good for your instruments. 0.11 is not that heavy but it's good if you want to tune down to B, Bb or A. 

I recommend most of the people here to get this kind of strings, those strings that are good for down-tuning, but also good for playing in E 

[NoonyDeloony]

Exo-Politics review with pictures :)

 

This song doesnt skip any strings, and it is a fairly slow song. There are also really only 3 riffs you have to learn, MM would be soo easy

 

Verse riffs

http://s29.postimg.org/y42ttwj47/2015_02_16_00006.jpg

This is it in a nutshell, a whole step skip and then a half step skip on the lower string. 3 on difficulty

 

Pre-chorus

http://s14.postimg.org/ci0yclw8x/2015_02_16_00008.jpg

This is the biggest jump in the whole song, and its really not the much of a jump since it settles on 8 after (4)

 

And the Chorus

http://s1.postimg.org/4xv2e5oyn/2015_02_16_00009.jpg

The pre chorus gets you ready for that 8, and it runs down like this during the whole chorus, if you weren't basically playing a slower version of this in the pre, it would be a surprise.

Chorus also hits a 6 in the E you wouldnt expect, and might miss as a result (4.5)

 

overall this song gets 3.66 in my difficulty book, slightly above a beginner song, but nowhere near advanced.... 

 

 

No disrespect @@then3verend as I admire your skill and wisdom , but, you're speaking from the perspective of someone with 7+ years experience playing bass/guitar, your subjective view as an accomplished and celebrated competitor on how easy an advanced song is for someone to master is very different from mine... myself being in the advanced category however, with very little theory understanding and still limited technical ability that I have (I can't use a plectrum, nor slap bass, nor chug those incredible long scores) I am actually finding this challenging, yet fun.) It's not "soo easy". To sight read it I found it easy (subjective), but this song just happens to be in a style I enjoy to play and I can connect to it... yet something like "pour some sugar on me" I have never been able to commit to memory because of the lengthy pauses between notes, plus because of the sight reading, I've lost my touch to relate audio to fretting position.

 

Please don't forget that your expertise far outweighs mine and probably some of the others in the lower tiers so when you categorically proclaim that something is "soo easy", that's for you... others may have had 50% theory training, 50% practical in the however many years they've been learning the bass. Some may have been playing 20 years but still only know 1 song all the way through (like me, on guitar). Subjective thoughts aren't really helpful when mounting an opinion on everyone's ability when you've already surpassed our goals, and then some.

 

I just wanted to try MM for the odd song I liked and thought I'd be capable of accomplishing. I really wasn't expecting implementation of it to the competition... I was hoping the transition from Advanced - Master Class would be addressed though but that's disappeared now and been forgotten about.  

[then3verend]

@@NoonyDeloony I completely agree with what you say

 

@all else Hard Bass songs that are 4 stringed with a lead part exist :P I won't tell you though, I like keeping it a secret

[Nacholede]

Oh man...i remember now. PRIMUS!

WE NEED PRIMUS! 

Les is an amazing bass player, having Primus songs chosen for the Championship will fit perfectly for MC bass. Also they are really fun to play

[MilkmanDan]

@@then3verend -

 

Here's how I think about bass difficulty.  We've got the classes defined by a name, and a difficulty range tied to that name:  Beginner = 1-3, Intermediate = 4-6, Advanced = 7-8, Master Class = 9-10.

 

Rocksmith is a good tool, even for absolute beginners.  So to me, Beginner should really range down to absolute beginner.  I've actually put my bass (and guitar) into the hands of people who have never picked up either instrument before and seen how they handle Rocksmith. In an hour or so, they can usually plunk out some of the basslines that I would rate as a "1" on difficulty, to a decent degree of accuracy (80%+), although by that point they've probably near butchered their fingers.  Still, given a week, they'd be getting accuracies in the 90's.

 

"Intermediate" is harder to nail down, but I picture that as someone who has a grasp of the instrument, understands all the basics, and can pull off all of the basic techniques like slides and HoPos (and at least power chords for lead guitar, or a decent array of real chords for rhythm) given enough attempts.  Depending on how much practice they get, a person might have been playing for a year or more but still fit here.

 

To me "Advanced" suggests the same thing as intermediate, but combined with the ability to sight-read and play songs to a reasonably high degree of accuracy on first playthroughs.  I wouldn't have fit in my definition of advanced when I started playing Rocksmith about a year ago, but intermediate would be fair.  At some point, without even really knowing it was happening, I went from what I'd call intermediate to advanced.  I remember early on, I tried to play Burnin' For You by Blue Oyster Cult.  First try I got somewhere in the low 60's for accuracy, and decided "whoa, that song is way out of my league".  Never tried it again for 4-5 months, then loaded it up and got a pretty easy 95+.  Now, that song seems "dead easy" to me ... but I can still remember the time when it was just plain beyond my skills.

 

Master Class kind of suffers from just being "better than Advanced, you'll know it when you see it", which I'll admit that in my rating system leaves quite a bit of space for just 2 numbers on the scale (difficulty 9-10).  I guess that I feel like my time with Rocksmith developed me into a shoestring MC participant (and I'm happy and comfortable with that) -- you, Blazi, and frippchen are the definite real deal.  Still we all need to keep in mind that what seems easy to us might very well be a good and appropriate challenge for those in the Advanced/Int/Beginner groups.

 

 

I think it is completely fair to say that bass, on average, tends to be easier than guitar.  There are plenty of bass parts that require a LOT of skill, and plenty of bassists with really amazing skills at their instrument.  But, on average, a lot of bass parts in songs are just not as hard as their guitar parts.  Even Cliff Burton, Geddy Lee, etc. ride the root sometimes.  So, we're going to have a hard time finding a song every week that fits legitimately into that 9-10 difficulty spot.  20% or 50% like in your earlier post seem like pretty close to as good as we can hope for.  And that was only a 20 week sample, and the Championship is now up to week 69.

 

I guess what I'm saying is, I hope we can find some more stuff to legitimately hit that 9-10 rating too -- but it isn't going to happen every week.  Even if we selected 1 song per week as "designated MC bass", without needing to have guitar parts, I think it would be pretty tough to fill a cherry-picked 20 week sample set with only CDLC or default Rocksmith 2014 songlist selections...

[then3verend]

Oh man...i remember now. PRIMUS!

WE NEED PRIMUS! 

Les is an amazing bass player, having Primus songs chosen for the Championship will fit perfectly for MC bass. Also they are really fun to play

Primus sucks B)

 

@@MilkmanDan Here's how I view classes

 

Beginner-I just picked up a guitar and what are those cool looking dots? 1-2 

 

Intermediate- I can play many basic classic riffs and i know some basic chords. 3-5

 

Advanced-I can kind of get the hang of most songs, and I can play songs within my genre perfectly 5-8 

 

MC- I am the next "Insert Hero Here" on my instrument, obey my command 9-10

 

I intentionally make the ratings nonlinear because I think skill is nonlinear as well(ahead of the curve).

 

I know the championship is favorable towards the Lead class, but the rhythm and bass are two separate animals, one is chord heavy and a whole different kind of challenge, the other is a bouncier jumpier lead. I wouldnt mind seeing a higher percentage of true MC Bass songs that just 20-50(barely twice a month)

 

All in all, I'm done chiming in about this, just wanted to throw a review of why Exo-Politics wasnt Advanced, and why Bass is easy this week.

[genobadass]

MC bass obviously needs more Wooten, Chancellor, and Pastorious.

 

The thing about the bass is that is a feel instrument. It is all about the feel. Guitar has more notes so it can be digitized better I think.

 

I discovered on stir it up I was having recognition issues because I was ringing out some notes for feel. I struggled hard with this and then realized I could just tap them with no ring to better effect. I was still hitting the notes in time, but getting recognition issues.

 

Will this make me a better bassist? I seriously doubt it, but I'm playing a game.

 

What is the end goal? Personally, I want to jam out with my musician friends and not feel like the special needs kid. I had a band ages ago, and  I played the root note for my amazing friends to play over. I was still happy. I'd like to contribute more at this point though. I am getting older daily.

[genobadass]

 

Oh man...i remember now. PRIMUS!

WE NEED PRIMUS! 

Les is an amazing bass player, having Primus songs chosen for the Championship will fit perfectly for MC bass. Also they are really fun to play

Primus sucks B)

 

@@MilkmanDan Here's how I view classes

 

Beginner-I just picked up a guitar and what are those cool looking dots? 1-2 

 

Intermediate- I can play many basic classic riffs and i know some basic chords. 3-5

 

Advanced-I can kind of get the hang of most songs, and I can play songs within my genre perfectly 5-8 

 

MC- I am the next "Insert Hero Here" on my instrument, obey my command 9-10

 

I intentionally make the ratings nonlinear because I think skill is nonlinear as well(ahead of the curve).

 

I know the championship is favorable towards the Lead class, but the rhythm and bass are two separate animals, one is chord heavy and a whole different kind of challenge, the other is a bouncier jumpier lead. I wouldnt mind seeing a higher percentage of true MC Bass songs that just 20-50(barely twice a month)

 

All in all, I'm done chiming in about this, just wanted to throw a review of why Exo-Politics wasnt Advanced, and why Bass is easy this week.

 

Your description of Advanced describes me perfectly. I can get shit I like down pretty damn good after a solid 8 hrs of practice.

[genobadass]

 

 

Oh man...i remember now. PRIMUS!

WE NEED PRIMUS! 

Les is an amazing bass player, having Primus songs chosen for the Championship will fit perfectly for MC bass. Also they are really fun to play

Primus sucks B)

 

@@MilkmanDan Here's how I view classes

 

Beginner-I just picked up a guitar and what are those cool looking dots? 1-2 

 

Intermediate- I can play many basic classic riffs and i know some basic chords. 3-5

 

Advanced-I can kind of get the hang of most songs, and I can play songs within my genre perfectly 5-8 

 

MC- I am the next "Insert Hero Here" on my instrument, obey my command 9-10

 

I intentionally make the ratings nonlinear because I think skill is nonlinear as well(ahead of the curve).

 

I know the championship is favorable towards the Lead class, but the rhythm and bass are two separate animals, one is chord heavy and a whole different kind of challenge, the other is a bouncier jumpier lead. I wouldnt mind seeing a higher percentage of true MC Bass songs that just 20-50(barely twice a month)

 

All in all, I'm done chiming in about this, just wanted to throw a review of why Exo-Politics wasnt Advanced, and why Bass is easy this week.

 

Your description of Advanced describes me perfectly. I can get shit I like down pretty damn good after a solid 8 hrs of practice.

 

Also I am currently wearing a Primus Sucks T-Shirt. It is my favorite t-shirt I have ever stolen from a friend. I can post a picture ...

[missis sumner]

Just for a bit of fun, I'm still pressing for 100% in master mode on this:

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B49Qq-EFnmrKVnNFNEpxQ0Vnams/view?usp=sharing

 

Exactly the same %, but a slightly better score.  D'oh.  

 

I don't really like this (although I have only tried it once… sorry to whoever chose it):

Cannon rock, 96%

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B49Qq-EFnmrKMmZlLUNEVUUyUm8/view?usp=sharing

 

Muse bass - you never know what you're going to get: easy, a bit tricky or unplayable.  I'd rate this as a bit tricky.  I'll be trying for 100% 'cos I like Muse, but I'm nowhere near yet:

Exo Politics, 93%

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B49Qq-EFnmrKVXJrdElnazNTdW8/view?usp=sharing

 

Thinking about it, I have played Exo Politics before, but on guitar.  (Well, the word "played" is debatable…)

 

I'm home all week this week (or at least working in the office rather than site), so should be able to spend a little more time on my bass. :D

[NoonyDeloony]

Turn the ratings up to 11 or (12). 4 level categories, all with 3 degrees of difficulty.

 

Is anyone going to address the transitions at all? Beginner to int, int to advanced, advanced to MC ? Because I am feeling it's derailing into an MC "no hard songs for bass" debate, which is an issue that can be solved by MC players just picking the songs for that level of ability, non of the lower level players are going to pip you at the post if they attempt to play the songs in your category nor are they likely to choose one that they CAN play if the MC players set the bar for MC.

 

I understand making MC class is going to keep you guys entertained more but it's not going to stop people falling in to a category they can't get out of off the back of one song being mildly easier for any of the other level players. MC have nowhere else to go, immediate transitions for 100%ing a song in to purgatory are not going to happen, (unless you make a higher level category where you have to master mode Jaco and Victor, on a unicycle, on camera, nude.... This is not a suggestion, please don't go off on a fucking tangent and try to implement this.)

[Motive]

@@then3verend Look Song selection list, we have only a few a songs with rate 2. So that range for beginner set 1-3, or they will have not any a song for challenge,   therefore range Int. too extended to 4-6

 

And i full agree with rating system by @Milkman, it is objective and fair as possible, and rate suitable for wide range participants. And yet, range 1-10 enough.

I see only one path for bass players. It is rotating system selecting a songs.

In process selecting a songs for next week, need set up different priority on rotation base 

First week as usually:

1 Select a song for Beg, focusing on rate lead

2. Select a song for Int, focusing on rate lead 

3. Select a song for Adv, focusing on rate lead

4 Select a song for MC, focusing on rate lead

Next week second option:

1 Select a song for MC Bass path, focusing on rate Bass

2. Select a song for Adv Bass pth, focusing on rate Bass 

3. Select remaining a songs for lead paths, focusing on rate leads

For clear see set an even number of week - usually way selecting,  an odd number of  week, priority selecting Bass (second option).

[Gamut]

Toiled some more today, here are the fruits of my labour:

 

http://i.imgur.com/M165XzK.jpg

 

+4 on the MC. Can I do 80 on this? I usually can't break out of the 70s on any of the 10s, but I'm going to try!

 

http://i.imgur.com/Y5G8n15.jpg

 

I really like this song. I want to do a video of this one, but  I still I haven't got the tinny wind-tunnel effect out of my laptop audio, even though I have a nice stereo line in that should be clear as crystal, in theory. My room's clean this time, even!

 

http://i.imgur.com/1ECVSPu.jpg

 

This +1 was totally not worth hearing Dave sing about taking me higher another 3 rounds. :P  I do well at different solo sections each time I play this, if I can get a decent run of all of them I think I can do 94+ on this.

[KJParsley]

 

MM score will be mark in Red color, if score in MM + bonus =100% in compare with clear  usually 100% SA - it  is the win MM (not important streak).

Noooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!

 

A real 100 is worth much more than a MM upleveled one!!

 

 

 

Many may not like this, but how about adding a new "Purist" class that is Master mode only, 'x' points for MM-ing the beginner song, 'y' points for MM-ing the intermediate song, etc...

[MilkmanDan]

@@then3verend Look Song selection list, we have only a few a songs with rate 2. So that range for beginner set 1-3, or they will have not any a song for challenge,   therefore range Int. too extended to 4-6

 

And i full agree with rating system by @Milkman, it is objective and fair as possible, and rate suitable for wide range participants. And yet, range 1-10 enough.

I see only one path for bass players. It is rotating system selecting a songs.

In process selecting a songs for next week, need set up different priority on rotation base 

First week as usually:

1 Select a song for Beg, focusing on rate lead

2. Select a song for Int, focusing on rate lead 

3. Select a song for Adv, focusing on rate lead

4 Select a song for MC, focusing on rate lead

Next week second option:

1 Select a song for MC Bass path, focusing on rate Bass

2. Select a song for Adv Bass pth, focusing on rate Bass 

3. Select remaining a songs for lead paths, focusing on rate leads

For clear see set an even number of week - usually way selecting,  an odd number of  week, priority selecting Bass (second option).

 

I like this!  But, I think that there tend to be more players here that see lead guitar as the main event, and more participants in the guitar side in general.  So, even if bass was the "primary" path for song selection one out of every 3-4 weeks instead of half of the time, I still think that could be a good change.

 

Maybe even throw Rhythm into the rotation, to make sure there is a suitable Advanced and MC Rhythm selection some weeks (focus on filling those).  Like:

Week 1 - Select for primary being lead.  Suitable MC, Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner all chosen for lead.  Rhythm gets whatever songs fit for as many as are available (rhythm arrangement not required, so could potentially be nothing).  Bass arrangements are required, but we follow the current system of hardest of the 4 = MC, on down to easiest being Beginner.

Week 2 - Select to prioritize the Rhythm paths with the most participants (probably Advanced and MC).  Choose 2 songs that fit those difficulty levels, and then try to fill in 4 levels of lead as secondary goal, but MC lead may end up just being hardest of the 4 and so on.  Bass arrangements still required, but again just set hardest = MC and on down.

Week 3 - Repeat week 1 format.

Week 4 - Select first 2 songs to prioritize suitable selections for MC and Advanced Bass (most popular bass divisions).  Fill 4 levels of lead from there, hardest = MC.  Int and Beginner bass get best matches available.

...? -> Repeat -> Profit

[fripponomic]

Oh man...i remember now. PRIMUS!

WE NEED PRIMUS!

Les is an amazing bass player, having Primus songs chosen for the Championship will fit perfectly for MC bass. Also they are really fun to play

I agree with you, Primus would be perfect, also to improve slap technics.

Of course some people doesn't like, but that's a matter of taste. If you just say "Dream Theatre" I like to run away, but taste doesn't matter. In fact actually there are 5 Primus songs in the Database having guitar and bass, and one of them I've got since a couple of weeks in the List.

Norwood Fisher is also a tough bass player, so Im gonna add some more Fishbone.

 

I would like to see somone here playing Wooten :D

[fripponomic]

Added one more Fishbone song to the SSL.

Now I've got 3 songs with the same difficulty in Bass path: 9, but I will check them again for rating.

[Motive]

I`m sorry, i very like Megadeth, but a song "Super collider"  very bad for my test. And yet it bad choice for WC, there simplest chords most time (rate 2) of a song and hard solo (rate >=9), nothing learning for Adv class.

My first and last score:

http://i.imgur.com/BBnwao5.jpg

[Rodman]

Wow, and it´s only tuesday :)

 

What if:

 

The real problem is MC bass, nothing else - any other category is filled to the players satisfaction every week.

I really can understand that it is a really odd situation for our Bass Masters that they have to battle for "i get more perfects than you" o.c. playing blind... almost from the first try ... thinking about that twice its really ridiculous....

 

I really would hate if you lose interest because of this...

 

So what if

WE LEAVE EVERYTHING AS IT IS except we do seperate song selection for MC BASS.

Meaning we allow bass only songs to be entered into SSL and if available a 9-10 bass song is put into Bass MC

 

Remember: Also the rest of the bass players is happy with how it is, i think i can speak for us advancies and if you ask e.g. @@punchyrumble i bet there are gonna be no complaints either..

 

There would be quite some advantages:

#The other 3 bass classes could be even more adequatly filled

and

#We finally could have guitar songs selected without bass !!!! which has (at least for me) been a prob in the past

 

# @Noons - that would add to the level up adv-mc bass solution too, cause the hardest guit and bass song would more often end up in adv class where they should be... like this week