Genres in the filter

[justin4327]

I would like to see the genres of music inside the new search engine. Its most likely a large feature to implement that's going to take a lot of time and work. But i think its going to benefit into to the development of Ignition. For me its going help and in a sense motivate me into putting a genre that i like in the filter and find new music for me to learn and play. Because right now its difficult and time consuming to find a new band that i would like within the Custom forge database, without it being a band that i know. it would be very awesome is you guys can do this for me and think i'm not the only one thinking this also.

[Azrael]

This has been discussed looooots of times before!

Bottom line: Genres cannot be defined in a precise way and they even depend on personal taste. Thus it is not possible to include them in the search in any overall useful way.

 

I suggest you use you use other features on the internet (or the "real world") to get to know new bands ;-)

 

Also: Check out the Customsforge Championship! There you will find new songs for your difficulty level ;-)

[Anderi]

One could put basic genres on the song info. i.e. Country, Pop, Rock, Funk, Metal, Reggae, Blues, Classical. One could tag several different genres if one feels that the song falls under multiple categories. I agree that genres cannot be defined in precise way, but some guidelines would be useful. 

[Motive]

@@Azrael there no big problem with definition genre. Look site last.fm, tags work and help find new band. Try use tags on last.fm.

There application for PC will connect to server for checking update, new cdlc and other. In app need add tags, and users genres, every can to add genre (or choices from drop list gotted from server, of course it would be drop list on online site search Ignition)  for cdlc which he like.

http://i.imgur.com/HarHcZc.jpg

Or big drop list from server for all genres:

http://i.imgur.com/IiAk7Xd.jpg

then it sync with server, server calculate most used genre for cdlc and upload most used tag to app on PC to tag "Genre". For tables: On first place will appear most used genre then less.

So can use it as cloud linkable tags of genre for find similar artist

there screen working example for artist:

User voting or add similar artist:

http://i.imgur.com/k08ybAL.jpg

then server calculate and show more similar close or bold to main:

http://i.imgur.com/WLnR3CM.jpg

 

All it very helped with looking new bands. There it work perfect, (registered community on site 90 000.)

On CF is 65 000 that more then enough for working system.

Genres cannot be defined in a precise way and they even depend on personal taste. 

It more  like excuses nothing to do

[Azrael]

@

 

thanks for you detailed answer. I was merely pointing out what (under my impression) the outcome of every other discussion about this topic has been in the past months.

You are right: It is of course possible to include the kind of system you are proposing... but to be honest it seems like a lot of work for the developers.

 

I think the question is: Is it worth the effort? As I mentioned in my first post, there are lots of other places to look for new music (and you mentioned last.fm).

Personally, I would prefer not to spend hundreds of dollars and development hours for such a system, when it already exists elsewhere.

 

Of course I would not complain if the devs here said that it is not hard after all and they want to implement it ;-)

But I think there are other things to improve that should have a higher priority.

[Motive]

I think, if need extra $ for development, enough post goal at main page, with target "For add tag Genre" with the desired amount.

Personaly i know only maybe 10-20 bands from 10000 cdlc, and don`t know what i can play yet for fun, so i simple download a few cdlc in week for to try, and most time I see that this is not that what i want play, so as i dont known what genre is band. Now there no tags genre for search good tune, only way random take some cdlc, huge wasting time for find good tune.

And personally for my main priority is tags and rates, new disign it is wasting time and money, old face was enough good and clear see.

[AntonZap]

I don't see any problem at all if we, the charters, were the one's to add a genre tag, I know a lot of songs are in a gray area, but we should be able to select one or more from a list of "generic" genres to be decided in a poll of some sort, that way, it could be easily implemented.

 

Another thing we could do, mind this is just an idea, is add a recommended song/band mini list related to the song, what I mean is something like this, you open let's say, a song by alice in chains, and in the song page there could be a list of bands related to it, for this example, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden. Of course the users would have the choice if they want to do this last step, but since you already have to spend a lot of time to make a good custom, I don't think writing a couple of lines would be that much of a bother.

[Division of Joy]

I'm add my voice in saying I'd love for a tagging system. Let registered users add tags like "post punk" "japan" "soundtrack" "video game." There's so much CDLC and no way to sort through it to find something new and interesting unless you already know the band you're looking for.

[firekorn]

@ integrating genre link to other servers might not be the easiest thing to do and looking at how many genre they list you can almost put one genre for each artist they have (it is a bit exagerated but you get the point).

 

@@AntonZap what exactly do you call a "generic genre"? I like metal but it's so vague as it is that it will be a mess to actually find things you do like with a generic genre tag. And how do you define which genre is generic and which aren't?

 

@@Division of Joy Every charter can already use tag on CDLC page and some add genre as a tag. The problem here is that ignition (and the old search) doesn't look into tag...

 

It's a good/bad idea depending on how it's done and i have no idea how to implement it in a usefull way myself. Going through someone else's DB like last.fm is probably a false good idea from my point of view but i might be wrong.

[Division of Joy]

@firekorn Yeah bringing those tags into ignition would be the best way. Then you don't have to worry about the genre being too broad nor too specific. Just browsing metal type "metal." What "Swedish post-deathgaze?" Well the charter might have tagged it so you can try your luck search.

[Izzy]

In my opinion .. the best way to alleviate the problem of assigning genres, would be to allow the addition of multiple genres, for example, acdc could be classified as rock, metal, or classic metal.  

 

just a thought

[AntonZap]

@@firekorn For example, these 2 Pictures provide a list of genres of both Rock and Metal (I own none, just picked 2 from random Google Image search):

 

Example 1:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-hP8Rt9FJKes/T-kKuELpSSI/AAAAAAAABek/ISQABOho-jc/s1600/History-of-Rock-Chalkboard-16x10.jpeg

 

Example 2:

http://heavymetalboard.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/image2-1378741184g4n8k.png

 

Now, if we use that as some kind of guide there's got to be something we could do, and if someone feels like there's an important genre missing it could be discussed here, after all thats the purpose of the thread.

 

I'm not against using a service like ask.fm for providing the genres, but since no developers has said any word about implementing such function I'm not that sure we can count on that. And as Izzy said in the post above, tagging a song with multiple genres should be of some help.

[fatboy2oo]

@@AntonZap I always liked looking at the rock progression chart ever since I saw School of Rock as a kid. What is the question mark genre?

 

 

anyways, I like the generic genre option. Right now I have to search for generic genres and hope that someone in the comments wrote the genre. Like if I search for country or pop or alternative rock. I don't know what songs are available, and there are some songs in my library that I do not even think to search for because I didn't imagine anyone else on the planet would like that song enough to want to play it (much less go through the trouble of making a cdlc) except me. :)

 

I think adding a bunch of generic genres and allowing to categorize into multiple genres would be sufficient. not perfect, but sufficient. If i could check the "alternative rock" box and look through all the songs considered alternative rock. 80% of them might not match my definition of alternative rock, but at least it shortened the list. Got rid of a bunch of music that I am not at all interested in.

[firekorn]

@@AntonZap Those two charts are cool but there's contradiction between those two charts and they only cover a small portion of the whole music that exist.

 

Imagine how messy it would be to create a chart (or even a list) that cover all the genre and band related to the genre that exist!

 

This site (http://www.furia.com/misc/genremaps/engenremap.html) has a list of all genre that exist (1353 beliving this site do cover all genre that do exist) and even by limiting the list to the only "mainstream" genre, you find yourself with 135 genre which is already quite a number.

 

Moreover, we can debate on what "mainstream" is. I'm not sure every-one will consider space-rock as a mainstream genre for exemple yet this site does.

 

Genre is a complicated and subjective subject (who would actually call Jimi Hendrix Early Metal?) which leads me to think that there's no easy way of having a good genre definition system for CDLC.

 

I know there's some site that allow you to find related artist from one you type in the search which really helps in finding new artist in sometimes similar but different genre (if you believe in those little boxes we put music into :) ) and that seems to me like the best option to help those who want to find new artist.

 

And as a final point, charter chart the music they like and that might actually be a best way to look out for new artist than by trying to put some genre tags everywhere and find your way through them.

[Izzy]

Firekorn ... the ambiguity of assigning genres to music is why i suggested giving users 3 spaces to define genre.  You would not be required to use all three, but it would make things easier to use.  I would limit the genres available to only a handful.  just like using red, blue and green (or yellow). you are able to create any color in the world.  using rock, country, jazz .. etc would allow you to fairly accurately define the "genre" of the music.

[AntonZap]

@@firekorn I get what you mean, specially since a system like this would depend a lot on subjectivity from the charter, but hey, it can't be any more of a mess than what we have right now, which is clicking random songs in hope that we stumble upon one that catches our eyes.

 

Actually that page you found provides quite a good sorted list of genres that could be implemented initially, and if there are any considerable genres missing then it could be open to discussion if it needs to be added.

 

I don't mean to tag the bands, but instead the songs, since a lot of bands experiment with a lot of sounds, and as Izzy suggested multiple genre tags for each songs could narrow a more specific list. And if a multi-genre tag search could be implemented into the database, then it would work even better.

 

And yeah, had a laugh with the Hendrix Metal xD, it's just as I said, just googled a couple of images to provide a point.

[firekorn]

@@Izzy @@AntonZap i'm all for being able to find out new cool musics to play. I just think that genre isn't the way to do it :D

 

I think that related artist (basing the relation using the users collection in ignition for exemple or favorit artist of users) would be way more effective and less "subjective" (if it's possible) than genre tags are.

 

But i don't think this topic is about solution to help people find out new music but about using and applying genre tag into the CDLC system which i think is not a good way of achieving the goal behind those genre tags.

 

It's true that genre tags are what's commonly used though so if there's an easy way to implement it, i'm all for it. It won't do any harm but it might not do as many good as some people think.

 

And yeah, the site i've linked is really cool, type an artist in the search to find out in which category it fits and find out others band in that category but at one point you mostly get lost in all the categories :P

 

PS : i do put a genre tag on my cdlc

 

PPS : And yeah having a drop down list with 200 genre and putting up to 3 different genre could be done but i'm not the one deciding it and those who do doesn't seems to do anything about it at the moment so this discussion is kinda endless i guess.

[droxid]

 

PPS : And yeah having a drop down list with 200 genre and putting up to 3 different genre could be done but i'm not the one deciding it and those who do doesn't seems to do anything about it at the moment so this discussion is kinda endless i guess.

Please dear developers... just do that - it will do the job just fine... everybody will be happy....done.

[hellohello]

Why don't you say what type of music you like and ask for recommendations instead? Right now I haven't too  much problem finding music on my own, well at first was a little hard here in CF but not a big deal and now, I'm pretty used to, so I find weird people finding music on their own. If you have time to spare playing then you can spare some of that time listening music and finding something you'll like, internet radio is another option. Genre music tags aren't all that much necessary to me. ^_^

[dpslikeits1999]

It seems the main reason used to justify a 'genre' tag for each song is to help users identify music or songs that they'd like.  That seems beyond the scope of CF.  I think a more reasonable goal for CF and Ignition would be to help the users find CDLCs.   If you don't know what CDLC you want, it shouldn't fall upon CF to help you with that.  You've got 12k+ pieces of music to choose from and you can preview most of them.  Just because you recently discovered the Yardbirds, it shouldn't be CF's job to point out Cream and Eric Clapton. 

 

There are many resources on the internet (many describe in this thread) that can help someone find similar music to what they like.  Is't this what Pandora does for a living? 

[Stefan]

Song year in the filter would be awesome.

[Spaced]

Anything would help with genre, even if it's never standardized. Just a blank field where you can write whatever you want is better than nothing. 

 

If someone wrote "gangsta skronk jazz soundtrack" I'd be fine with that, at least it's something. One person might call black sabbath rock music, but if someone else called it "stoner doom" that works for me too. 

 

Just something to give a bit of insight to the content would go a long way here. And would save a lot of time googling unknown artists to see it it's the kind of music I'm looking for. 

[Unleashed2k]

I'm going to state at this point there's no way to implement this with the next release of Ignition. I am highly interested in all of your feedback for this feature and will like to look at all of our options.

 

I've found new songs via this method before and as a music website it's major that we cover not only finding songs you know and love, but new ones as well.

Please continue to discuss methods and we'll look into it in the future releases of our products.

[JR2015_Rocks]

@ you mention that there is at least 43 jazz song out there, can you share the list with me? I'm learning bass and I like jazz but I don't know the artist or songs.

 

Thanks.