The need to separate good cdlc from unfinished/bad one

[JayEm]

As it is right now, downloading cdlc is a complete shot in the dark. We have no idea if the customs we download will be accurate, have a good tone, well synced, etc. I havent downloaded any cdlc for this reason. I tried about 5 and were all pretty bad. I believe a way to distinguish good dlc is imperative. 

 

Idea:

 

1.- Assign a "tester" status to several trust worthy members. 

2.- Any member can report or signal cdlc, promting a tester to see if it is indeed a good custom

3.- Have 3 sections:

    a ) Submitted cdlc

    b )Awaiting testing section

    c )Approved section

 

The flow would go like this

User A submits a song

User B thinks the song is ready, so he signals the testers and the song gets moved to awaiting testing section

User C(a tester) sees if the song is official dlc worthy material

Song gets moved to approved, or the tester provides feedback

 

Testers can enter the awaiting testing section at any time and try any song on the list.

 

Thoughts?

[no92stallion]

I completely agree--that is holding me back from downloading more CDLC as well. Site is really coming together though, so I'm sure they'll add something like that soon!

[Kent0348]

This sounds good, but I'm wondering whether enough people would want to be testers. It seems a bit tedious to me to just dedicate your time to testing songs that you have never heard of and may not like.

[JayEm]

I know, this site is shaping up to be even better, it kinda of already is, just for the omission of some kind of differentiation which this thread is about. A group of championship players (advanced ones), charters and admins could pull this off, I think. I'd gladly help testing, could help discover some new music. 

[CrazyEddie]

Im of the idea that if its not at least a full arrangement+tone+lyrics 100% it should stay at the "Workshop" area which i treat as a WIP zone, anything goes there but when hitting the submitted form and uploading to the customs DB then it should at least, as ive said, have 1 fully tested arrangement, can be rythm, lead or bass either way as long as its one fully tested (at least by the charter and a friend, doesnt has to be a official test something like "hey man, what do you think?" "its good, the tone was ok and the tabs were ok too")+ 1 ok tone (as long as its not horrible, as a sense of the effects used in the song, even if its not the spot on settings of the distortion/flanger/delay/etc, at least something resembling)+ lyrics.

 

I wish your idea comes true but it will take a lot of work, effort and dedication and i can already tell it will make some people feel like this is a job and for some it seems that charting already has that effect so, i would suggest to have a set of friends who are willing to give you some minutes of their time a couple of days a week (if you are a constant charter) and asking them in chat, shouldnt take a lot this way it also promotes some charters being more social which in communities like this is always good.

 

Good luck.

[MVega]

No, I think this will only cool people's enthusiasm for creating customs. The ratings system (and the whining about it) is part of what brought Smithys down, after all.

 

I'm not able to make my own customs -- time, ability, talent -- so I'm pretty grateful that other people can, and are taking the time to do this for the rest of us.

 

I agree that a lot of the customs I've tested aren't all that great. In fact a lot of them are just unplayable -- partly because I'm so used to the official songs, which of course are professionally charted. So the difference is too jarring.

 

But you know what? I didn't pay for any of the CDLCs and therefore can't complain about them.

 

I've argued for the need to consider CDLCs as part of a vast Open Source project -- once a CDLC has been posted, there should be a process allowing interested people to continue to refine them. It's like a lot of fields -- take books, for example. The writer creates the initial manuscript, but there are a lot of people involved in cleaning it up and getting it ready for publication before it finally becomes a book.

[cstewart]

I hope you guys are posting constructive feedback in the songs' threads.  Otherwise all this is is complaining that the things you're getting for free aren't good enough.  Help make them better.

[PhamNuwen]

I'm a fan of the open source approach as well.

 

I've made numerous small tweaks to other people's customs, ranging from removing a "The" at the beginning of the "Sort Name" field, adding a custom tone where there was none, splitting the song into sections for easier riff repeating, to fixing wrong charts.

 

I don't feel like I can upload the new versions under my own name, but if there was a way to attach these tweaks to the original database entry, I'd gladly do that. Of course, some of those originated from Smithy's, and don't have a database entry here yet.

[FuzzyMuff]

perhaps rather than a rating system the devs can implement a way to encourage feedback... e.g. notify a user something along the lines of....

 

You have downloaded 10 tracks in past 10 days, please consider leaving feedback to show your appreciation or to tell the authors how you think their tracks could be improved

[pgboyd]

Deja vu - rating systems, trying to get users to provide feedback. There used to be another site that was going down this road and ended up crashing off a washed out bridge in pretty spectacular fashion.Some charters want your feedback and will act on it to improve their customs. Some charters want to get out as much as they can and don't really care if there are things that they consider "fluff". Some charters only want to do the tracks that they want to play and don't care if it doesn't have a bass track, or a vocals track.Take what you get and tell the charter thanks. Some customs are as good as (if not better) than official dlc but the vast majority of the people who do charting are never going to be expert so don't expect it. You won't see any of my customs here because I got quickly burnt out trying to make them perfect and got tired of seeing the ratio of downloads to simple thanks being so lopsided.There is already a simple thanks button. Don't be afraid to use it.

[MVega]

I hope you guys are posting constructive feedback in the songs' threads.  Otherwise all this is is complaining that the things you're getting for free aren't good enough.  Help make them better.

 

It's not always about feedback. I think it's a question of not expecting you guys to be Swiss army knives -- one customs builder might be really good at figuring out tab, but not so great at syncing it up. Another might be better at matching guitar tones, things like that. I'm betting the official DLCs are all prepared by a team too.

 

I hesitate to offer feedback in large part because I don't know how to make customs -- so I don't understand how they're made, and this makes it difficult for me to comment on precisely what seems off.

 

And I don't trust my guitar playing abilities enough either -- it's possible a CDLC is perfectly playable -- even if it's not as well made as an official song -- but it's just beyond my ability.to play it well right off the bat.

[cstewart]

Perfectly understandable Marty, but you've already been helpful to me with the feedback.  And I'm certain that official DLC is done by a team.  I remember reading that there is at least a peer review process. 

[Kent0348]

Deja vu - rating systems, trying to get users to provide feedback. There used to be another site that was going down this road and ended up crashing off a washed out bridge in pretty spectacular fashion. Some charters want your feedback and will act on it to improve their customs. Some charters want to get out as much as they can and don't really care if there are things that they consider "fluff". Some charters only want to do the tracks that they want to play and don't care if it doesn't have a bass track, or a vocals track. Take what you get and tell the charter thanks. Some customs are as good as (if not better) than official dlc but the vast majority of the people who do charting are never going to be expert so don't expect it. You won't see any of my customs here because I got quickly burnt out trying to make them perfect and got tired of seeing the ratio of downloads to simple thanks being so lopsided. There is already a simple thanks button. Don't be afraid to use it.

Well, what do you think of something like, displaying the amount of thanks a cdlc has gotten in the search engine? This could also be used as some sort of measure of how popular/good a custom song is without essentially being a rating system.

Also I'm not sure what you guys even mean by SA downfall or what the rating system would have to do with this. Clearly Majere is in lone control of SA and if he decides to just stop hosting a cdlc index then it's not the fault of a rating system or anyone else. Do you mean the contributors that left because of the rating system instead? I'd call it less of a crash because there were still a whole lot of contributors left and willing to make custom songs with or without the rating system

[Deratio]

Perfectly understandable Marty, but you've already been helpful to me with the feedback.  And I'm certain that official DLC is done by a team.  I remember reading that there is at least a peer review process. 

Absolutely true. Every one of my releases has has some kind of problem for the 1st version or 2. I test the hell out of them, but I don't play guitar and there are so many factors that I accept that I am going to miss something. I can only fix what I know about, so community feedback is very important to me.

If you are making suggestions and the cdlc author is not responsive, then It is on you to fix the cdlc - anyone can open these and make changes as needed. If your reasoning is "I don't want to learn how to make cdlc and I want some kind of guarantee on quality for the work other people do" then you need to a. evaluate and change that or b. die in a fire.

[MVega]

Absolutely true. Every one of my releases has has some kind of problem for the 1st version or 2. I test the hell out of them, but I don't play guitar and there are so many factors that I accept that I am going to miss something. I can only fix what I know about, so community feedback is very important to me.

If you are making suggestions and the cdlc author is not responsive, then It is on you to fix the cdlc - anyone can open these and make changes as needed. If your reasoning is "I don't want to learn how to make cdlc and I want some kind of guarantee on quality for the work other people do" then you need to a. evaluate and change that or b. die in a fire.

 

Die in a fire? Hmm.

 

I don't make customs --yet -- because I work two jobs, have a wife and two kids, and need time to play guitar. I'm hoping to have a bit of a break in my workload in a couple of months, at which time I may well give it a shot, since I do enjoy playing with software. But I'm usually into the creative parts, not much of a technician.

 

I do try to contribute in other ways, as small as they may be.

 

As for opening other people's customs and working on them: I think there should be a section here in Customsforge where customs builders who are open to working as a team can post their CDLCs. By doing this they can agree to relinquishing authorship, or at least sharing it. Perhaps they can call themselves "Team Leader" or something like that.

[cstewart]

As for opening other people's customs and working on them: I think there should be a section here in Customsforge where customs builders who are open to working as a team can post their CDLCs. By doing this they can agree to relinquishing authorship, or at least sharing it. Perhaps they can call themselves "Team Leader" or something like that.

 

I like this idea.  A lot.

[Rush]

dbl post :/ 

 

 

Absolutely true. Every one of my releases has has some kind of problem for the 1st version or 2. I test the hell out of them, but I don't play guitar and there are so many factors that I accept that I am going to miss something. I can only fix what I know about, so community feedback is very important to me.

If you are making suggestions and the cdlc author is not responsive, then It is on you to fix the cdlc - anyone can open these and make changes as needed. If your reasoning is "I don't want to learn how to make cdlc and I want some kind of guarantee on quality for the work other people do" then you need to a. evaluate and change that or b. die in a fire.

I second that, if you dont like how the song is charted, you can tweak it, who's gonna know? then you'll have the song that you love in an acceptable version of your own. Besides you have the majority of the work done so, just tweak the thing :)

When things start to getting "proffesional" all the fun flies away by the nearest window, as pgboyd says, deja vu.

[Deratio]

Die in a fire? Hmm.

 

I don't make customs --yet -- because I work two jobs, have a wife and two kids, and need time to play guitar. I'm hoping to have a bit of a break in my workload in a couple of months, at which time I may well give it a shot, since I do enjoy playing with software. But I'm usually into the creative parts, not much of a technician.

 

I do try to contribute in other ways, as small as they may be.

 

As for opening other people's customs and working on them: I think there should be a section here in Customsforge where customs builders who are open to working as a team can post their CDLCs. By doing this they can agree to relinquishing authorship, or at least sharing it. Perhaps they can call themselves "Team Leader" or something like that.

Maybe not a fire (I was kidding btw). I personally think that all of these releases are open source - none of us own the rights to any of these songs, so I don't care if someone modifies anything I do. Obviously I won't release things that I have revised to compete with the author, but getting hung up on ownership seems like a bad idea.

 

And I am aware that there are lots of ways to contribute - and I'm not taking anything away from that, I was just suggesting that spending an hour or 2 learning to fix the problems that no one else is fixing would be more useful than trying to designate a group of unpaid testers to work through tonnes of releases and provide their subjective opinions. I would prefer no gatekeepers, just the community and my own standards.

[MarineIguana]

If song that need things fixing are to be put into the workshop then you will have no feedback at all, I haven't even open the workshop forum and all you get in the workshop is 'thanks' and 'request this' so no my customs will go into the CDLC area and people can tell me what's wrong that's how it works that's how it should stay.

[cstewart]

I definitely consider this all collaborative.  After all -  the tab I used, for the most part, is not my own.  The cover art and youtube videos I'm linking aren't mine.  I didn't write any of the software that makes any of this possible.  I don't own the website or the hosting services.  The only thing I can claim ownership over is the time and work I put into it, and I like doing it so who cares?

[cstewart]

double post

[PC Plum]

I agree that there should be different sections for different "standards of finish", or a simple marking technique in the database - "approved by [trusted member].

 

It would be easy to implement (I'm pretty sure), doesn't require ratings or feedback or anything.  A few respected guitar players/mods/whatever putting their seal of approval to a release.  It really would add to the experience of downloading customs in a positive way, instead of downloading something and it not being accurate at all.  It really does irk.

[Rush]

As for opening other people's customs and working on them: I think there should be a section here in Customsforge where customs builders who are open to working as a team can post their CDLCs. By doing this they can agree to relinquishing authorship, or at least sharing it. Perhaps they can call themselves "Team Leader" or something like that.

I like this idea too, I think the devs in ubi work as a team... what about us? we have bassist, guitarrists, sound techs, etc. very talented people, so why not? 

[CrazyEddie]

IF anyone can point me to a post here or "there" that teaches how to open a CDLC and tweak it as if it was me who started it from scratch i would be very grateful, taking into account its a someone painless process then fine, if there is no such a thing then im happy posting the "essential" files from any CDLC in my workshop, i think doing this as a open source activity is awesome, specially as someone that used to run Linux for years (i miss it :( )

 

Altho now that i think about it, some charters might get upset if we upload a "tweaked" or "corrected" version of their work, so for those of us interesting in making this an open source project we should SPECIFY in the comments section of the uploads that we are ok with other people doing that but please if you do, dont forget to credit everyone involved (in the charting process i mean) by the time you got your hands, and NOW that i think about that there should also be some kind of id thing to identify a CDLC chart/modifying process.

 

Lets say:

 

1) Rush charts Song X.

    a) he adds lead, bass, lyrics and tone.

 

So far the comments section of SUCH DB entry should state something like: "Song X_1_xxx", whereas 1 no longer states the version but the uploader and .xxx means the version, so if its Rush´s only version of such file it should be Song X_1_1 or something like this.

 

2) I add Rhythm, so the comments section state: Song X_2_1, and i specify the Original uploader was Rush and that the change i did was adding rhythm.

 

3) Deratio says: "ooooh HELL NAAAW DAWG, that bass line can be better" works his magic on it and specifies in the comment section of his DB uploads: "Song_X_3_1" mentioning Rush, then CrazyEddie and stating he changed the bass line.

 

This is just an idea and i KNOW its overcomplicating thigs but if we are going through the open source road you know something like this will be needed to avoid confusion.

 

Hope it helps.

[Rush]

IF anyone can point me to a post here or "there" that teaches how to open a CDLC and tweak it as if it was me who started it from scratch i would be very grateful, taking into account its a someone painless process then fine, if there is no such a thing then im happy posting the "essential" files from any CDLC in my workshop, i think doing this as a open source activity is awesome, specially as someone that used to run Linux for years (i miss it :( )

 

Altho now that i think about it, some charters might get upset if we upload a "tweaked" or "corrected" version of their work, so for those of us interesting in making this an open source project we should SPECIFY in the comments section of the uploads that we are ok with other people doing that but please if you do, dont forget to credit everyone involved (in the charting process i mean) by the time you got your hands, and NOW that i think about that there should also be some kind of id thing to identify a CDLC chart/modifying process.

 

Lets say:

 

1) Rush charts Song X.

    a) he adds lead, bass, lyrics and tone.

 

So far the comments section of SUCH DB entry should state something like: "Song X_1_xxx", whereas 1 no longer states the version but the uploader and .xxx means the version, so if its Rush´s only version of such file it should be Song X_1_1 or something like this.

 

2) I add Rhythm, so the comments section state: Song X_2_1, and i specify the Original uploader was Rush and that the change i did was adding rhythm.

 

3) Deratio says: "ooooh HELL NAAAW DAWG, that bass line can be better" works his magic on it and specifies in the comment section of his DB uploads: "Song_X_3_1" mentioning Rush, then CrazyEddie and stating he changed the bass line.

 

This is just an idea and i KNOW its overcomplicating thigs but if we are going through the open source road you know something like this will be needed to avoid confusion.

 

Hope it helps.

To tweak a cdlc:

1. open the toolkit and go to the dlc packer/unpacker tab 

2. select the cdlc victim xD

3. select the destination folder and "unpack"

4. open Eof and work as if you were building a new project,  (make a new folder) in the unpacked folders look for a song folder to load the cdlc audio (there are two audio files, select the bigger one)

5. eof menu file--> rocksmith import, look for a folder called "arr" and load the instruments arrangements

6. tweak what you want :mrgreen:

7. when you have finished,  save your work, rename the _rs2 files as were shown in the unpacked "arr" folder replace the "unholy" files in the "arr" folder, select the packer/unpacker tab in the toolkit, select the folder to pack, write the new .psarc name and press  "pack"

8. enjoy your nu version :P

[CrazyEddie]

Thanks a lot Rush, now ill be "correcting" a couple of notes in a few CDLC that are great but make me IRK, hahah "the victim" xD