The need to separate good cdlc from unfinished/bad one

[JayEm]

As it is right now, downloading cdlc is a complete shot in the dark. We have no idea if the customs we download will be accurate, have a good tone, well synced, etc. I havent downloaded any cdlc for this reason. I tried about 5 and were all pretty bad. I believe a way to distinguish good dlc is imperative. 

 

Idea:

 

1.- Assign a "tester" status to several trust worthy members. 

2.- Any member can report or signal cdlc, promting a tester to see if it is indeed a good custom

3.- Have 3 sections:

    a ) Submitted cdlc

    b )Awaiting testing section

    c )Approved section

 

The flow would go like this

User A submits a song

User B thinks the song is ready, so he signals the testers and the song gets moved to awaiting testing section

User C(a tester) sees if the song is official dlc worthy material

Song gets moved to approved, or the tester provides feedback

 

Testers can enter the awaiting testing section at any time and try any song on the list.

 

Thoughts?

[MVega]

Well, the way I see it, CDLCs can be released BOTH to the database and to an Open Source area. As people contribute to a file, they can post updated versions in the database too. Sort of like the whole Wiki thing.

 

I agree about the gatekeepers thing though. This should all be on a voluntary basis -- if you want to open the CDLC up to others, do it. If you don't, that's your choice.

[Olorin]

Well, well let me say what i have to say about it.

 

What i see here is some "problems" in the communication at all.

 

1. We have some person who moaning about other person, because of there "bad" CDLC.

2. We got some person who are only think about " YEah i download it, thats it"

3. We got some request guys who don't care about the other

4. We got a lot of talented guys for everything (charting and so on)

5. We got charters who are give the whole thing a try (me included)

6. we got a lot of very helpfull person here

 

But there is one thing we don't have yet.

 

A community that works together.

 

Look at the points i wrote down. What do u see? Most of the person here work for themself.

As u see i totally agree with the idea, that we should work as a team some guys works for the quick first charting, other fore the fine-tuning and so on.

If we could work like that, we got a lot of good cdlc and the crying about possible bad cdlc would stop. Of course this would be a lot of work, to creat a base team.

 

But i also see the point that the fun may get lost, if we do it that way. But what do we want?  CDLC that works to share it with the community or do we want CDLC for our own? If we want it for our own way we share then here?

 

i don't wanna attack anybody with those words. it's only my oppinion about the situation.

 

Either we work together as a community or even not. But we can't do it in 2 or 3 weeks and not everyone by his own.

 

Maybe we should open a Topic in the Workshop section, everyone who wanna help out the community can post there.

 

If someone wanna make the quick charts or just the fine tuning, because he can do it good, than it is good and he can post there.

 

Also we should give feedback for the songs we downloaded, because without them we can't make good cdlc everytime.

 

I give normally everytime a feedback when i download a cdlc.

 

And that is all i got to say. Think about it.

 

Greating from the friendly angry german

[JayEm]

Keep in mind, I am not just whining or asking for a rating system, god I know that didnt work. I myself am a charter and I KNOW how much work it can take to do a very good custom. I just think that some way of knowing that a custom is very good is essential, as things are right now we have no clue, I downloaded about 15 yesterday and Im hoping they are good. 

[Olorin]

I Also chart some songs my friend. But keep in Mind, i say i don't wanna attack anybody with that. But i wouldn't say that u are a whiner or even a cryer. Why? Easy to say, because u say there is a problem and try so solve the problem with some ideas. It's a start in the right way.

 

Everyone here see a problem and we try to work on the problem to solve it.  At the moment, it's maybe only a discussion about what the problem and what could we maybe do. The only question is, can we finish it? Can we all find a way to solve the problem, a solution with which we are all satisfied or we just talk about it?

[CrazyEddie]

I agree with Olorin and to answer his questions, ill put up my name in anyones list as a "tester" on WEEKENDS, thats when i can make a commitment to test a couple of CDLC´s inside out, if i can do it in weekdays then awesome but i wouldnt count on that, im not the best guitarrist hell im not even good haha but whatever i can do to help by any feedback i can give ill be happy to do so, so if anyone else would like to do the same add yourself to this list im starting in your own post and keep the previous names in the list with any specifications of your own:

 

 

TESTERS:

 

CrazyEddie (on weekends).

 

 

 

Ill be posting updated lists over at http://customsforge.com/topic/1621-the-testers-list/ so if you are up for it let us know here, thanks. 

[MVega]

I actually started taking notes while playing a CDLC last night. This one -- 10 AM Automatic -- is really good.

 

But it has a few sync errors -- it looks to me like the tails of some of the bends/sustains are too long -- they end up overlapping the next notes, throwing off the tab (but you can still play in sync with the music and Rocksmith doesn't give you a miss for that, which is weird).

 

I think this one was converted from a .dat file -- although the tab in that one (there's a video of it on youtube) isn't exactly the same. (I like the new version, which uses an open C chord instead of C power chords -- I think it's more accurate).

 

I've tried to contact the charter -- but since the Smithy's database is down, it's hard to know who made what anymore. It seems like capk made the RS2012 version - who converted it to a .psarc?

 

Anyway, this one would be a good example for a team file -- it's so close to being perfect, it just needs a bit of tweaking.

[cstewart]

It looks like capk converted it too.  Or at least he posted it up:

 

http://forums.smithyanvil.com/viewtopic.php?id=13916

[JayEm]

The idea of making customs "open" to adjustments by other users is a great idea. Charters that want to be recognized can just dont select this option, while guys that dont care can just upload their work and let other users modify it. I know I CAN modify customs on my pc, but as things are now Im not allowed to reupload the corrected versions. 

[MVega]

It looks like capk converted it too.  Or at least he posted it up:

 

http://forums.smithyanvil.com/viewtopic.php?id=13916

 

Yeah, I've written to him (her?), waiting to hear back.

[Olorin]

If we going this way, that we creat a open Chart section., like some upload the EoF files that the Community or even a smaller Team can work on it. How should that look like?

 

Because i can't believe it would works good ,if everybody have a chance to modify the songs , without any rules that make before.

 

Don't get me wrong i would love to work like that, but i can't really see if it could work yet.

 

There are still some problems i see only for example:

 

Person A Pre-Chart everything, Guitar 1-2 and Bass.

Then he give the EoF files to the Community that someone, look on it if it's sync or if it need some fine-tuning at the sync part.

 

So Person B say he look over it, re sync the whole thing and upload the EoF files.

 

So then Person C do the same work or just reload the work of Person B.

 

it's only one scenario what could happen. The problem is here who is the creator of the CDLC. Who has the permission to upload it as a CDLC?

 

Diffrent Example:

Person A Pre-Chart everything, Guitar 1-2 and Bass.

Then he give the EoF files to the Community that someone, look on it if it's sync or if it need some fine-tuning at the sync part.

 

Problem no one Cares about it, no one work on it and Person A don't want to work on it anymore.

 

So we have a dead Post out there. How long will it be there? get it delet or closed? Who look for those things and would deleted if it necessary?Hopefully you guys understand what i try to say with my bad english.

 

As long as we have not elaborated rules, for the whole Open Work CDLC, i can't see that this will work.

Greating from the friendly angry german

[MVega]

Oh, no one ever said it'd be easy :-P

 

But maybe a system like a library -- the author puts his work on a "shelf" and if someone else wants to work on it, he checks it out, (leaving a note or whatever), then puts it back on the shelf again (with another note in the thread). At a certain point, when the file is done, the "shelf" is closed -- since there is a point where no more work needs to be done on a file. 

 

I don't imagine we're going to have dozens of people fighting to work on the same file.

[JayEm]

Oh, no one ever said it'd be easy :-P

 

But maybe a system like a library -- the author puts his work on a "shelf" and if someone else wants to work on it, he checks it out, (leaving a note or whatever), then puts it back on the shelf again (with another note in the thread). At a certain point, when the file is done, the "shelf" is closed -- since there is a point where no more work needs to be done on a file. 

 

I don't imagine we're going to have dozens of people fighting to work on the same file.

This could work, posting on this "shelf" would mean you dont care about authorship, so whoever grabs it and finishes it can post it properly. If no one cares about a specific custom then yes, it would be left as a dead post, but that is the same as if it hadnt been posted in the first place. 

 

Thing is, if a custom is submitted with gutiar only, adding the bass tabs is gonna be hard, you cant just import the tabs and sync the bass without altering the already synced guitar part. Still, the work of changing the audio file in WWise would be done, among other things, so it would still be less work for whoever wants to finish the custom.

[cstewart]

I would imagine that if it were as easy as just importing the bass tab the original author would have done it.  I have a bunch of songs that I would like to do (or have started already) that I couldn't find any bass tabs at all for.  This would be the kind of custom that I would put up for collaboration in the hopes that a bass player with a good ear would like the song enough to try transcribing it and either putting it into EOF or handing over his transcription so I could do it.  I also suck at creating tones, so someone who knows what the hell a phaser pedal does could take care of that part.

 

I guess the benefit of this would be that all the customs floating around where people only do the bass or lead because that's all they want to do or can do, can be made complete if the original authors are willing to give up their babies (or at least loan them out).

[Olorin]

Like JayEm said, it's not that easy to add some instrument parts in a project.

 

That's why i said we need some kind of Rules or guidlines like:

 

If someone open there Costum for every one as a EoF Bundle, then he has to pre chart it.

 

That means, adding all instruments and drag the segments ( intro, chorus and so on) as good as possible.

 

Because if someone say "Allright i help you to sync it!" could work a little bit faster.

 

So but now we could have a problem, let me explain it.

 

We have 2 person who wants to help.

 

1 Guy Work on the Lead part, the other one on the Rhythm/Bass part.

 

But how u will import those parts? It can happen, because of the work of 3 person, that we have 3 diffrent sync's.

Even if someone would add it as a XML file , it would be a harder work to add sync all 3 parts.

 

IN case of that, there can only max. 2 person work on the charting part. 1 who pre chart it and 1 who make the fine tuning.

 

If i completly wrong say it please. I only can talk of my failurs that i make.

 

As long there is no way we could handle it, we don't really talk about it what is the next step for the open CDLC Project.

[Pruitt1962]

I'm new to attempting to create CDLC, but I won't post a song to the database that I think still needs work. I don't think that's right, myslef. I will post it in the Workshop (and have), and ask for people to test parts out for me and leave me feedback (and people have and it has helped considerably). As the site is currently constructed, it's the method I personally believe should be used to help ensure that the content in the Database reflects quality, and not just quantity. If new features are introduced here, that may help, but this is the way I believe the site was intended to function.

 

I also believe it would be beneficial for us to be able to work in groups, or allow others to fix parts, I would never have an issue with that. This whole idea of ownership of something we don't actually own has made me uneasy since I found this stuff last week. I am trying to create CDLC in order to promote the styles of music I enjoy. I couldn't care less about being recognized for it on some internet forum where I don't personally know anyone. I just want to help people experience and play genres and songs they may have otherwise never tried. It's as simple as that.

 

Now I just need to finish off my migration to my brand new PC, so I can get back to working on CDLC again. haha...

[cstewart]

I guess I don't understand the trouble with importing guitarpro tabs since I don't use that method.  I just do everything manually. Maybe that's why it takes so long.

 

The division of labor doesn't have to work the same way for every song.  One person can import lead and sync it and the other can manually input the bass.  Or one person can import all the arrangements and someone else can sync them.  I think making the system too rigid would be a mistake.

[MVega]

Maybe this is something to discuss with the makers of the toolkit -- some sort of collaborative feature that allows different versions to be merged. Like a Word file or even better, one of those Google Doodle things.

[Alex360]

Aludog was on this way, but I think we could develop some alternate system to accept volunteers corrections to the cdlc.It means no need to get source files, you just can get all that you need from psarcdat and improve by yourself, then add a post-suggestion under cdlc record, I don't know how to interact those patches, but we could use some version system for it, original author work, then if its have any patches done to another peoples - notify OP to force him merge changes or if we got  more than one patch and should control peoples from posting the same patches.sort of, what do you think?

[Olorin]

Well so far it's sound very good, would be a great beginning and basis for a co-op work.

[MVega]

 

I also believe it would be beneficial for us to be able to work in groups, or allow others to fix parts, I would never have an issue with that. This whole idea of ownership of something we don't actually own has made me uneasy since I found this stuff last week. I am trying to create CDLC in order to promote the styles of music I enjoy. I couldn't care less about being recognized for it on some internet forum where I don't personally know anyone. I just want to help people experience and play genres and songs they may have otherwise never tried. It's as simple as that.

 

My thoughts exactly. And if (or really when) I get around to creating my own, I'll have no problem turning it over as a group thing.

 

Although I can understand how someone who's put a lot of effort into making a CDLC can feel a certain ownership over it. There should be a way to accommodate those feelings too.

 

But what happened as a result of the Smithy's breakdown -- that is, the loss of the databases -- highlights the danger of people 'owning' their CDLCs. According to this database http://www.rscustom.net/dlc there were more than 2,500 CDLCs for RS2012. And in the process, a lot of them seem to be lost forever -- seems like some of the 'owners' have discontinued their links, or otherwise pulled out of the customs universe.

 

It just seems a shame. Even if they weren't interested in updating them to RS2014 files, someone else might have been willing to do this work.

[JayEm]

Maybe set different kind of helpers. Guys that are good at creating tones would be tone designers. Guys that are good players and can verify a good tab. Syncing experts could just sync the parts and so on

[JayEm]

Even so, the collaborative working, while a great idea and something we should discuss through, doesnt really help the normal user identify a good custom from one that is not up to snuff. 

[Olorin]

As long as it is on a voluntary base, i think we could handle it as a group. Everyone who want's to help is welcome thats it.

[JayEm]

Me too, if it is overcomplicated then it wont work

[MVega]

Even so, the collaborative working, while a great idea and something we should discuss through, doesnt really help the normal user identify a good custom from one that is not up to snuff. 

 

I don't see this as a big problem. I mean, sure, it's disappointing when you go to try out a CDLC and it's not quite... complete. But where's the real harm?

 

How about if each CDLC had its own changelog (well, a lot of them do already) and the files are labeled "beta"? When you go to download a song, you can read the changelog -- at a certain point, when everyone involved is satisfied with the state of the file, it gets taken out of beta. And maybe this status can be added to the database. This way, people who only want to play a truly finalized cDLC can filter for this status.

 

The idea behind all of this is NOT to chase people off from creating CDLCs, but to get people more involved. Myself, for example. I'm planning to start my first CDLC over the next few days (got a break in my workload sooner than I expected). And part of what's encouraging me to do this is the idea that I can set it up as an "open" project for others to join in on.