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Why so many song version (updates)?


Mac66
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Lately there have been numerous songs that are seemingly updated with new versions daily or sometime multiple times in one day. I am not saying that this is the worst thing that could happen, at least the fixes and changes are occurring for some songs. But it does make it difficult to keep up with the changes and requires that users download a new version each time.  I would prefer to download songs that are further along in their initial development before they are released, hoping that this would alleviate the need for 5, 6, 7 or more versions.  Just my two cents.

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Often this is the result of feedback for issues that had gone unnoticed at the time it was published. Also when people first start out mistakes are made more often than those that have been publishing for a while. You can tag favorite artists usingnthe star system and also follow certain posts to get notifications of updates. Overall I'm just happy there are people that give feedback to make improvements. Its far too uncommon around here.

 

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While I understand, and appreciate, the need for changes as feedback comes in, I do think that multiple versions are hard to keep track of. I had multiple version of the same songs in my DLC file because of the frequent updates and I have decided that for me personally I will no longer download those songs.

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You're upset about charter's updating their songs to improve them because you can't delete the old versions after downloading the new ones?

 

I personally welcome all updates, and charters can do as many as it takes to get them perfect.  It only takes a few seconds to delete a file after an update is released.

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I usually try to do the song so that an update will not be needed but sometimes a 2nd pair of eyes sees things mine doesn't.  If someone is doing tons of updates and they are new to making customs I can kinda see that since things are confusing at first but I don't like it when people are in such a rush to release a song that they just put out 1 arrangement and add parts in each update.  There shouldnt be a rush to intentionally release incomplete that should be put in the workshop.

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I usually try to do the song so that an update will not be needed but sometimes a 2nd pair of eyes sees things mine doesn't.  If someone is doing tons of updates and they are new to making customs I can kinda see that since things are confusing at first but I don't like it when people are in such a rush to release a song that they just put out 1 arrangement and add parts in each update.  There shouldnt be a rush to intentionally release incomplete that should be put in the workshop.

 

I do agree with that point.  I'm getting tired of seeing v1 releases of customs with notes like "it's a work in progress" or "needs some work, updates will be released soon".

 

Some "charters" (no offence to Magna Charters) care more about releasing customs in quantity, not quality.

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Wepeel, it is not about needing to delete versions but rather needing to download 5, 6, 7 versions of the same song by the same charter.  As far as being a new charter that should be even more reason to take your time before putting songs out. I think that is a perfect example of why there needs to be separate WIP and Approved sections. I also understand that there could still be times when Approved songs might need some updating but it would definitely be better than having to download a song multiple times.

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Not again the approved section kinda tag discussion please...

 

And bitchin about songs being update... what else?

It's part of the process and sometimes multiple updates are needed that's all.

 

And by the way, a cdlc management software is under dev (i think) and the day it will be finished, those problems will fade away. That means that every correction made would be usefull for a limited time and will consume dev time that would be better used on the software itself.

 

And talking about the way charter do their job is a bit risky, charter do this on their free time and it is time consuming, the fact that they take times to update and make (good or not isn't the question here, i've never seen a custom without the need of at least one update) cdlc is already a blessing and allow this site to grown up everyday the way it does.

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Firekorn's workshop
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#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

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Firekorn, I make very few comments on this forum and I don't appreciate it when I do that it is called Bitchin. And as I said earlier, one or two or even three are not the issue I am talking about.  So if it is your custom just to jump on people who make comments that you disagree with then I think that is just as risky as it could drive away people who donate and help keep the site going just as much as the charters. 

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Wepeel, it is not about needing to delete versions but rather needing to download 5, 6, 7 versions of the same song by the same charter.  As far as being a new charter that should be even more reason to take your time before putting songs out.

 

I understand your point, but unfortunately that's the price of getting something for free.  As long as charters are working towards making their customs better, I welcome the updates.  There are too many sub-par customs that have been created and left to die because the charters have either moved on to other tracks, or don't know how to fix them.

 

That's why constructive feedback is so important.  Lots of users just leave a "thanks", or "great song choice!" and give positive feedback because they simply like the song or artist, or are too afraid to give negative feedback (for whatever reason).

 

If we all help as best we can to give detailed feedback about how to fix/improve customs, things will get better faster.

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Even for someone who programs and understands the need to release concise, stable patches for software, I don't mind.  As a pretty amateur musician I think it would be hard to continuously release CDLC that had little flaws, and even if you fix one (just like software), its very easy to cause a new problem by fixing an old one.

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@@Mac66, sorry if I come out strong but you were starting to talk about an approved section which never worked well on SA and has been discussed multiple times here to come to the conclusion that it won't happen anytime soon and if so, it has to be correctly designed to not do the mistake that was made on SA.

 

And to get back to the center of the topic, complaining when charter updates (at a rate that don't suit you) seems funny at first, I completely understand when the problem is that customs aren't updated but when they are it's already amazing that it happens so complaining when it happens too many times in a limited amount of time (and I like to have some exemple here), sorry but I can't understand the reason to complain especially when a cdlc management software is under dev and will get rid of this problem.

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 Personally Im just glad that charters are looking to improve their customs and not just say screw it and move on with "other" projects....after all it benefits us all when they are improved and in the end I think everyone wants the best customs available to play and enjoy.....deleting old versions so you can upgrade to an improved version seems like a small price to pay as far as im concerned :)......I don't think there is anything that cant be made better in some way or another...so just keep trying to improve them if you can....if you do we all WIN in the end :)

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And LaceyB I find people like you who want to call other people's point of view whining or bitching to be offensive.  In this type of environment there are bound to be differing opinions of a lot of subjects like quality control of CDLC and being offensive and attempting to narrow the breadth of those opinions is not constructive.  It is this type of reaction that has kept me from posting to this forum in the past and undoubtedly will in the future.

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@@Mac66, i'm not trying to prevent you for posting and i kinda understand your point of view.

i just don't see why would we as charter limit the release rate of update just to accomodate some people that doesn't want to take time to manage and erase double/updated cdlc on their own folder.

 

I admit that i came out strong on my first post and i'm sorry about that but i would like that you also take in consideration what we say instead of just quitting because of what i said. Please :)

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@@firekorn, I am definitely not suggesting that charters limit their releases.  I understand the need for them and am definitely disturbed by the CDLC that are incomplete and left that way.  My initial question was why there are some CDLC that are being released and update multiple times, often within days of the initial release.  It is not that I don't want to provide feed back, and I usually do if I have something constructive to provide.  But I don't necessarily want to be a gueina pig for CDLC that is just being posted just to get something out there.  That is why I talked about Approved vs WIP.  I also understand there is a desire not to have an official Approved section and maybe that was the wrong words to use but knowing when a CDLC is "complete" versus in "shell" form  would definitely be beneficial.  I have stated in posts here and on Smithys, that I appreciate the work done by charters because I do not have the skill to create CDLC myself. My post was a question of quality control and not intend to piss anyone off. 

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Think of it this way:  you get to be part of the quality control process.  I see this CDLC creation thing as community endeavor and this is where you fit into the machine.  Thanks for helping test things out, komrade.

 

Besides, posting stuff in the Workshop usually results in little to no feedback.

 

Besides besides, I've seen people complaining (not that I think you are) that the something they're getting for nothing isn't good enough and that sense of entitlement bothers me.

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It takes some time (work) to keep on track all songs and latest updates, but its time consuming hobby like any other hobby is.

You can do it almost perfectly and use about 10-30 min/per day (nowdays) only to download all songs and updates and make sure there are no duplicates in dlc folder. But its choice, to spent some time and effort to have possibility to play (someday) all these awe songs, as charter wanted to be them played.

 

My concern is only same versions of songs that are uploaded several times, it takes some extra time to download them twice or more, but i think its just part of this hobby, some extra time used... because i.m just too stupid to not realize i have this and that song already, with latest update. 

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This post is a work in progress.... please come back to read the rest of it later.

 

Version 1:

  • Agreed that people who don't like WIPs shouldn't download them, or the CDLC of known WIPers
  • Pointed out the fact that lots of CDLC is half-assed WIP, except the charter doesn't bother to label it as such, so be thankful that at least the WIPer didn't abandon it
  • Put forth the notion that maybe when the charter released a new version, they truly hoped it would be the final version, but perhaps their dedication to quality drives them to continue fixing and improving, no matter how many revisions it takes, and that perhaps they try to balance quality with quantity (collecting feedback along the way) in order not to stagnate and lose interest....and that furthermore, some charters' WIPs start out more complete than some other charters "final" versions are.
  • Gave the advice that if you get tired of downloading new versions, skip a few, wait a month and play your outdated version until you feel like updating again. Nobody's forcing you.

Version 1.1:

  • Corrected grammar and punctuation

 

I hope to add dynamic difficulty to this post soon, so please bear with me.

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Words of wisdom for CDLC charters:

 

"When in doubt, steal a tone from Kansas' Carry On Wayward Son"

 

- Billkwando

 

Download my L'Arc~en~Ciel Ken "Love Driver Cat" custom Inlays here

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