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Encourage more users to chart CDLC


mczero
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How can we encourage more users of this site to chart CDLCs?

I just had a look through the Request CDLC tab and there's an almost infinite list of hopeful suggestions. It's mainly a dumping ground for requests. I doubt if many charters actually look it up. They of course have a huge list of their own favourites at the particular time and do one of those. I somehow doubt that as many as one percent of site members actually chart. It's tempting to just be a passive down-loader and use other peoples efforts to learn to play.  I have only done half a dozen charts myself, as I'm slow at it and it's a lot of work and I don't have much time. I only started because another enthusiastic member, Avdocatwork encouraged me to try. There's lots of good help once you get started on the Create CDLC tab and other places on the net. But how can we encourage more users to actually have a go? It's a steep learning curve at the beginning, but anyone can learn. The more of us that chart, the more likely your favourite song will appear on Ignition.  Users seem to be less inclined to give positive feedback on CDLC in recent years. (Well that's my impression anyhow.) Maybe we could publish a list of first time charters like we do for Patreons, I don't know, but I think the Admins should think about something like that. After all, we're not getting any more content from Ubi, and new content leads to donors and keeps RS and this site alive.

I'm just asking how can we get more users to become charters?

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I seem to recall that the previous Request area went the same way! I started charting because I couldn't find what I was looking for here, and I guess it's that which is the inspiration for many other charters. Personally, I keep an eye on the Requests Thread as quite often my pool of ideas dries up. Someone may have posted something which gives me a spark, such as Sultans of Swing this morning. Being a 50something old fart, the vast majority of the requests posted are just "noise" to my ears I'm afraid. Charting something you like can be hard work. Speaking from experience, charting something you don't like is even harder. How to get more charters? That's an excellent question. I guess it's a case of waiting for someone to have the inspiration to have a go, and then the dedication to keep going. There are as you say, plenty of resources out there to learn from.

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I chart BASS PARTS ONLY. Requests for guitar parts will be ignored. Ok? 

Twitter updates: @jamesprestonuk

Website: www.JamesPrestonUK.com/bass

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26 minutes ago, JamesPrestonUK said:

I started charting because I couldn't find what I was looking for here, and I guess it's that which is the inspiration for many other charters.

Agree with James.
I started with RS, because I wanted to learn guitar.
It took me like 1 year orso, to get to a point that I wasn't satisfied with some CDLC's, out of sync, not being how I wanted to play some, not being around, you can come up with a numerous reasons.
That's what got me in it, not because I wanted it desperately.
But when you do, alot will open up for you.
I still have like 200 or maybe even 300 tabs hanging around to work on, but I never realy look at request, as I still have enough I want to do.
Those that now are not charting, will probably end up getting curious about it, and start looking into it eventually.

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On 5/15/2021 at 8:59 PM, Jan Universe said:

Agree with James.
I started with RS, because I wanted to learn guitar.
It took me like 1 year orso, to get to a point that I wasn't satisfied with some CDLC's, out of sync, not being how I wanted to play some, not being around, you can come up with a numerous reasons.
That's what got me in it, not because I wanted it desperately.
But when you do, alot will open up for you.
I still have like 200 or maybe even 300 tabs hanging around to work on, but I never realy look at request, as I still have enough I want to do.
Those that now are not charting, will probably end up getting curious about it, and start looking into it eventually.

Thanks Jan,

Yes, I've got hundreds of tabs waiting to chart too. 

I recall before about 2016 charters used to get a label of "Charter" and "MagnaCharter" under their forum posts. That suddenly stopped and no-one seemed to notice or comment so far as I remember. Then more recently the labels disappeared from those who had one and no one commented so it probably did little to encourage anyone to chart. I agree that some downloaders will eventually get curious about it, but I was hoping there would be something the site could do to stimulate that process. I just don't know what.

Also have you noticed some members suddenly become enthusiastic charters for a year or two then drop out and often leave dead links. Ignition 4 wiped a lot of those. I think that's how the full version of Sultans of Swing disappeared. How can we hold on to these people more? 
Thanks James and Jan for thinking about it.

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2 hours ago, mczero said:

Also have you noticed some members suddenly become enthusiastic charters for a year or two then drop out and often leave dead links.
How can we hold on to these people more? 

For me personally, I have slowed down also atm, but that's more RL related, the whole situation we are in atm, world wide, has taken my focus on tabbing away some.
And tbh another thing, I probably will also not stick around for years, as there will come a time, were you have to ditch the training wheels.
I have set a time, till the end of this year, to be able to lose the training wheels.
Time will tell, if I make that, as playing has slowed down also, due to the situation we are in.

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9 hours ago, Jan Universe said:

For me personally, I have slowed down also atm, but that's more RL related, the whole situation we are in atm, world wide, has taken my focus on tabbing away some.
And tbh another thing, I probably will also not stick around for years, as there will come a time, were you have to ditch the training wheels.
I have set a time, till the end of this year, to be able to lose the training wheels.
Time will tell, if I make that, as playing has slowed down also, due to the situation we are in.

Thanks Jan,

So many opposites in my experience. I think in this new world, a lot more people are sitting at home playing on their own and some of them are charting.

Also I suspect I've got a few years on you, so my first band were getting gigs 3-4 times a week. Within 10 years it was 3-4 times a year, then after 10 more years, it was once every 10 years and now I haven't played a gig for over 10 years. So for me RS is like being back in the band again I can play along with Foster The People, Led Zeppelin etc and feel like I'm almost back in the band again, and we've got a good singer which I didn't always have. So it's almost the opposite of training wheels, more like a substitute for the real thing and a bit of nostalgia.

BTW, I mentioned @JamesPrestonUK in that post on Sultans of Swing. 

Anyway I see no reason why you should give up RS as a means of practice and learning new material no matter how much professional play you get, and there's nothing like charting a good song to gain musical understanding of it, even when you're playing in a band.

Cheers,

mczero

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6 hours ago, mczero said:

Also I suspect I've got a few years on you, so my first band were getting gigs 3-4 times a week. Within 10 years it was 3-4 times a year, then after 10 more years, it was once every 10 years and now I haven't played a gig for over 10 years.

Yes, indeed you got some years on me.
I only have like 3.5 years now with RS, never did anything with music at all, I only had like 3 private lessons on piano when I was like 8 years old, and did not like it, and never looked back.
Atm i'm not a spring chicken anymore, and got into guitar due to my last ex-GF, else I probaly would never had figured out that I would like guitar that much.
And sure alot of people might get into RS now, due to being home more.
Don't get me wrong, RS is imo the best tool to learn playing, and I will never completly give it up, but my goal is that I don't need it, as my main tool to learn, and that point is getting closer, sure there is still alot to learn for me, my main focus atm is more about connecting more and more dots.
But the problem is, that when I need it less, the need to chart it is also less.
And ofc I will work on tabs now and then, and will chart them, but it might slow down on the longer term.
The real world situation ain't helping for me personally, as I have to fight for my kids atm, before all this I was playing alot more.
RS is a great inspiration tool, to get people into, playing, charting, tabbing, and so on.

Not sure what you ment about Sultans of Swing, so i'm going back to that post and read again.

Jan

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19 hours ago, mczero said:

I think that's how the full version of Sultans of Swing disappeared.

I have a version 2.0 in my collection, with Lead, Rhythm, and Bass track.
Simply rip the tracks from that, and improve the tab, and put it out here again.
If that is what you ment with it.

And ofc there will be always people who will hit a wall, and might give up playing, and charting.
For those people, NEVER GIVE UP, keep strumming. 🙃

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Posted (edited)

I'm not specially sure that the info on Create CDLC is as good as we make it to be. It's enough to get started, sure, but a new user will find a hard wall in the first stages called: "Why is this happening and why is not explained in the guide?". I began charting just eight days ago and that's exactly what happened, I even had to look up Youtube videos because I just couldn't figure out, for example, why everything was changing places (turns out I was moving the beat arrows and making them too close to each other). I had to start from scratch four times in order to make my first chart. This was due to experimenting but also because information is dispersed, so it's harder to access it. Even the CDLC creation guide is outdated in some parts like when it says that a tone will be created by default if the user doesn't define one when making a chart. That's not true for DLC Builder and I found out the hard way.

All of this has an easy solution: Update the guides and make one big post for all of them so they are more convenient and readily availabe. On regards on how to get people to actually look at the guide, I've been thinking for a while on making an official CF youtube series on how to make CDLCs that is crystal clear about everything and is divided into episodes so people can find what they are looking for easily. What do you guys think?

Edited by Dardo
I misjudged how long ago I started charting. It was actually less.
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4 hours ago, Dardo said:

I'm not specially sure that the info on Create CDLC is as good as we make it to be. It's enough to get started, sure, but a new user will find a hard wall in the first stages called: "Why is this happening and why is not explained in the guide?".

I've been charting since 2018 and I've noticed very little if any updates to the info on Create CDLC. I've wanted to create tutorials myself but because I always make an effort to be a perfectionist, and as a result, it would require a lot of time for me to do that myself. I would love to make/see guides on how to do specific things. For example, I still struggle with charting very specific techniques like Pick Scraping or getting tremolo/vibrato to work right either due to me forgetting or through some other error on my part. A video showing the steps would be fantastic, especially for visual learners like myself.

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On 5/21/2021 at 12:09 PM, Dardo said:

I'm not specially sure that the info on Create CDLC is as good as we make it to be. It's enough to get started, sure, but a new user will find a hard wall in the first stages called: "Why is this happening and why is not explained in the guide?". I began charting just eight days ago and that's exactly what happened, I even had to look up Youtube videos because I just couldn't figure out, for example, why everything was changing places (turns out I was moving the beat arrows and making them too close to each other). I had to start from scratch four times in order to make my first chart. This was due to experimenting but also because information is dispersed, so it's harder to access it. Even the CDLC creation guide is outdated in some parts like when it says that a tone will be created by default if the user doesn't define one when making a chart. That's not true for DLC Builder and I found out the hard way.

All of this has an easy solution: Update the guides and make one big post for all of them so they are more convenient and readily availabe. On regards on how to get people to actually look at the guide, I've been thinking for a while on making an official CF youtube series on how to make CDLCs that is crystal clear about everything and is divided into episodes so people can find what they are looking for easily. What do you guys think?

I have a whole area to give feedback for that tutorial and ............ It's not used.

I'm easily reachable but my time to spend on a tutorial that nobody care to help with is just not all that great and motivation when people just ignore it is just not there. I'm easily reachable, if anyone wants to help, i'd be more than happy. I have 0 people do that over 3 years.

On 5/21/2021 at 4:55 PM, BazookaBear said:

I've been charting since 2018 and I've noticed very little if any updates to the info on Create CDLC. I've wanted to create tutorials myself but because I always make an effort to be a perfectionist, and as a result, it would require a lot of time for me to do that myself. I would love to make/see guides on how to do specific things. For example, I still struggle with charting very specific techniques like Pick Scraping or getting tremolo/vibrato to work right either due to me forgetting or through some other error on my part. A video showing the steps would be fantastic, especially for visual learners like myself.

There's little update because there is little change and at one point, i just don't have either the time or motivation and creating video is even more complicated and time consuming. As always, if anyone wants to do that, i'd be more than happy to incorporate it into the tutorial so that it is better for everyone.

On 5/21/2021 at 8:49 PM, RedCrowBleeding said:

A series of in depth how to videos would be extremely helpful.

I keep meaning to sit down and chart some stuff.

Also if you do create a series of videos please sticky them somewhere very very obvious.

As above, i'm more than open to integrate them if they are made (and that they are actually worth using of course). I'm there and ready to make the changes as needed. But if no one even bother to reach out and complain in their own little corner of the forum, it just won't get better.

Anyone is free to send me doc or to rewrite part of the tutorial so that it is better to everyone. I have 0 issues with that. But i won't run after people to get something, i have better things to do with my free time at the moment.

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59 minutes ago, firekorn said:

I have 0 people do that over 3 years.

In my humble opinion, This needs to change. Expecting you to do everything yourself is insane.

1 hour ago, firekorn said:

There's little update because there is little change

 

1 hour ago, firekorn said:

i just don't have either the time or motivation and creating video is even more complicated and time consuming.

Right, These are some of the reasons why I don't go marching to your thread demanding changes to your tutorial(s). Your tutorials are perfect for getting people started. That alone is impressive enough. Expecting/asking you to painstakingly update your tutorial to go into every little detail on every niche technique that every charter (especially beginner charters) might not use is rather unfair.

1 hour ago, firekorn said:

if anyone wants to do that, i'd be more than happy to incorporate it into the tutorial so that it is better for everyone.

I would like to work on that, yes sir.

1 hour ago, firekorn said:

i have better things to do with my free time at the moment.

I agree. I appreciate all of the work you've done. I do admit, I'm rather baffled why you seem to be the only mod/admin who contributes to tutorials, etc. (especially for 3 years)? Do the other mods not have the time or knowledge?

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In my humble opinion, This needs to change. Expecting you to do everything yourself is insane.

I'd agree but the amount of people that take the time to do the work are low so I do what i can in the meantime.

Quote

Your tutorials are perfect for getting people started. That alone is impressive enough. Expecting/asking you to painstakingly update your tutorial to go into every little detail on every niche technique that every charter (especially beginner charters) might not use is rather unfair.

I'd disagree it's perfect. It's probably the best we've got and it covers a fair bit of ground but i'm sure there's area that are lacking even in the basics and I'm sure there issue that are still in there that wouldn't be all that hard to fix either. It's not unfair to ask, what would be unfair is to expect me to do everything on the spot as soon as it is asked 😄
 

Quote

I do admit, I'm rather baffled why you seem to be the only mod/admin who contributes to tutorials, etc. (especially for 3 years)? Do the other mods not have the time or knowledge?

There's a lot of different things that gets into that. Firstly, i'm the most knowledgeable in the team in regards to making CDLC, it's my thing so i'm the most notable in that area but you won't see me contribute to RS Mods or to CFSM or to Ignition code.

That's kind of the second thing, others people have others things to deal with and to contribute to so their time is limited to help on other side of things like I don't have time to work on what they do.

Then add to that the fact we are just volunteer and don't have much of an incentive to work on everything that it's easy to just let others do what they like and for me to do what I like without needing to overstep.

There's also the work that is done that isn't visible, I did had others read it back when I first started it and there's also work on little detail like having the proper link for some of the tools and all those little thing that might appear like it's all me when it's not.

So yeah, there's a difference between what is obviously visible (having a post up with my name attached to it) and the actual work though it is indeed mostly me for the core of it.

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Thank you for bringing this up , this is a very important topic to all

Unfortunately one of the worst problems is the thank you system , Cdlc maker couldnt get some decent thank you or please fix that or that messages

I could care less about this emotions system , when some one saying a thank you message or showing care , thats worth much more

the community is very dry and not very supportive when it comes to making things together as cdlcs makers (the other support is fine)

on top of all that making cdlcs is very time consuming , buying tabs or copying tabs , making the cdlc itself and testing and adjusting the cdlc (if you actually care about your cdlc)

The feeling of looking at some of the cdlcs you bought the tabs for and seeing 30 downloads in few months doesn't feel good

 

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4 hours ago, yaniv800 said:

The feeling of looking at some of the cdlcs you bought the tabs for and seeing 30 downloads in few months doesn't feel good

 

Don't use downloads to value your work, there is no correlation between them and your chart. As a matter of fact there are many improved versions of other CDLC out there that don't have even half the downloads the first versions do, yet they are still highly valuable and contribute to the community by improving what is already there. Make sure that you make charts you'd like to play and after that share them around, that's the best way to not get burnt out or frustrated.

4 hours ago, yaniv800 said:

the community is very dry and not very supportive when it comes to making things together as cdlcs makers (the other support is fine)

on top of all that making cdlcs is very time consuming , buying tabs or copying tabs , making the cdlc itself and testing and adjusting the cdlc (if you actually care about your cdlc)

There are posts dedicated to charting full albums and even full discography's where each time a song is charted they remove it from the list so it gets done faster. The problem is that there are so many posts it can be hard to find them. If you want you can even create your own so this sort of thing gets done more often.

 

10 hours ago, firekorn said:

I'd agree but the amount of people that take the time to do the work are low so I do what i can in the meantime.

Although I've already talked about this with Firekorn, I want to make crystal clear that I'm going to attempt creating a proper video guide for creating CDLC that is dumbed down as possible and goes over as many techniques and tricks as it can and just everything in general. I just need to finish doing university exams and I will be able to actually get something done.

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12 hours ago, Dardo said:

Don't use downloads to value your work, there is no correlation between them and your chart. As a matter of fact there are many improved versions of other CDLC out there that don't have even half the downloads the first versions do, yet they are still highly valuable and contribute to the community by improving what is already there. Make sure that you make charts you'd like to play and after that share them around, that's the best way to not get burnt out or frustrated.

There are posts dedicated to charting full albums and even full discography's where each time a song is charted they remove it from the list so it gets done faster. The problem is that there are so many posts it can be hard to find them. If you want you can even create your own so this sort of thing gets done more often.

 

Although I've already talked about this with Firekorn, I want to make crystal clear that I'm going to attempt creating a proper video guide for creating CDLC that is dumbed down as possible and goes over as many techniques and tricks as it can and just everything in general. I just need to finish doing university exams and I will be able to actually get something done.

thanks for youre comment , I totally agree with you and hope that if you will make videos , you will mention that to others,

as for myself i made more then 600 cdlcs already in other user i have  , i guess that making cdlcs is not for me cause im expecting people to play it and never get satisfied , and also combined it with twitch for other people to play it and didnt liked it so thats even made it worst over the years

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On 5/30/2021 at 6:03 PM, yaniv800 said:

Unfortunately one of the worst problems is the thank you system , Cdlc maker couldnt get some decent thank you or please fix that or that messages

I could care less about this emotions system , when some one saying a thank you message or showing care , thats worth much more

the community is very dry and not very supportive when it comes to making things together as cdlcs makers (the other support is fine)

on top of all that making cdlcs is very time consuming , buying tabs or copying tabs , making the cdlc itself and testing and adjusting the cdlc (if you actually care about your cdlc)

The feeling of looking at some of the cdlcs you bought the tabs for and seeing 30 downloads in few months doesn't feel good

It's hard to incentivize random user to interact with charter, we try things but it's also development time that isn't freely available. It's definitely not perfect, as it is there's about 1 comment every 100 download or so on average. It's not all that bad but it's not particularly impressive either.

I'd disagree that the community is dry, the discord is plenty active and there's tons of answer there for any kind of questions. The forum has some decent activity in some area but it's also a forum which doesn't make it great for a fair bit of stuff and Ignition is still being worked on to be improve especially on the reporting system to help seperating the good from the bad and to clean up the database from dead link. If someone wants to find help and people to talk with, it's quite a nice community overall.

If all you look after are download, it's simple, do popular song, don't do good CDLC. That's just how the user are, they look for the song they know first. The work a charter do doesn't change anything to the DL number, otherwise i would have more download on the most unknown songs i've worked on. Talk to any decent charter and they'll agree it's a problem but it is also not an easy one to solve. We've put forward the favorite charter system so that people can more easily follow work from their favorite charter so that they'll notice even songs that they don't look for more easily but there's still room for improvement. It'll take time but we do think about it.

It's a tough situation but it's not all that grim either and the community is far from dead which also means things can evolve if there is push for it.

 

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Regarding the OP, its a bit of a double edged sword - I certainly like the idea of more people creating CDLC since that would mean more songs to play, but at the same time I really don't like it when people do extremely sloppy charts with one tone or didn't adjust the volume levels, left in default finger positions that make no sense, etc. I'd rather have no CDLC uploaded for a song than a bad CDLC that won't receive a proper update. Its just a waste and also leads to better charts not being created since that slot has been filled (at first glance)

On the one hand, I think we could certainly use some more detailed and straight to the point info in the guides (along with a more updated list of tutorial links - I often found dead links pointing to the old forum that no longer work, as recent as a few months back).

On the other hand, the individuals that are motivated to dig in and figure it out are often the individuals that will also put in the extra work to make good charts.

But, not making the tutorial details easily available probably leads to a lot of the bad charts we see

 

I'm very appreciative to Firekorn for his guide work and that is where I learned how to chart. 

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...and I think the commenting system on CDLC is just fine for users saying thanks, the problem is just the psychology of people in general... Its not an issue with this site only, its every site I participate in that involves sharing stuff you worked on. Most people just don't care enough to say thanks if they are basically anonymous. It doesn't change their experience so they don't care

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13 hours ago, arrov said:

...and I think the commenting system on CDLC is just fine for users saying thanks, the problem is just the psychology of people in general... Its not an issue with this site only, its every site I participate in that involves sharing stuff you worked on. Most people just don't care enough to say thanks if they are basically anonymous. It doesn't change their experience so they don't care

If people like something they'll usually not say it. If they dislike it they'll shout it. This works for most stuff in life.

 

13 hours ago, arrov said:

Regarding the OP, its a bit of a double edged sword

Considering that's the reason why the page that existed before CF was closed... Yeah, I'd say it is (it implemented a rating system that people used to throw shit at each other, making everyone fed up and leaving).

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7 hours ago, Dardo said:

If people like something they'll usually not say it. If they dislike it they'll shout it. This works for most stuff in life.

 

Honestly I wouldn't mind people stating their problems with CDLC since its helpful to everyone, but I rarely see even that. I find that people mostly only comment when they want to request something. I've had people request a CDLC, then I made it within the same week, and the person didn't even leave a thank you for their request...

Lately there have been some users leaving a few nice comments though

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23 hours ago, firekorn said:

It's hard to incentivize random user to interact with charter, we try things but it's also development time that isn't freely available. It's definitely not perfect, as it is there's about 1 comment every 100 download or so on average. It's not all that bad but it's not particularly impressive either.

I'd disagree that the community is dry, the discord is plenty active and there's tons of answer there for any kind of questions. The forum has some decent activity in some area but it's also a forum which doesn't make it great for a fair bit of stuff and Ignition is still being worked on to be improve especially on the reporting system to help seperating the good from the bad and to clean up the database from dead link. If someone wants to find help and people to talk with, it's quite a nice community overall.

If all you look after are download, it's simple, do popular song, don't do good CDLC. That's just how the user are, they look for the song they know first. The work a charter do doesn't change anything to the DL number, otherwise i would have more download on the most unknown songs i've worked on. Talk to any decent charter and they'll agree it's a problem but it is also not an easy one to solve. We've put forward the favorite charter system so that people can more easily follow work from their favorite charter so that they'll notice even songs that they don't look for more easily but there's still room for improvement. It'll take time but we do think about it.

It's a tough situation but it's not all that grim either and the community is far from dead which also means things can evolve if there is push for it.

 

agree , the day someone will care about downloads it would be really not good for his heart , and a popular song will work better

its nice to have a suggestion system of good charters , Let say "You download this charter cdlc" based on our recommendation system you might like "this song from this charter" ,

the report system is good i guess , maybe will be better if there will be a system that will reminds people to report a bad cdlc like "have you enjoyed the cdlc you download of this charter ? if not report here"

i have no right to talk about a community because i didnt used those communications systems alot and im not good at that, but as far as i know 4 years ago people was alot more passionate in making things together and now days it doesn't really happens alot , i think that its because making cdlcs is very demanding and hard and not appreciative so alot of the good charters left

22 hours ago, arrov said:

 

On the one hand, I think we could certainly use some more detailed and straight to the point info in the guides (along with a more updated list of tutorial links - I often found dead links pointing to the old forum that no longer work, as recent as a few months back).

On the other hand, the individuals that are motivated to dig in and figure it out are often the individuals that will also put in the extra work to make good charts.

But, not making the tutorial details easily available probably leads to a lot of the bad charts we see

 

I'm very appreciative to Firekorn for his guide work and that is where I learned how to chart. 

i dont think that thats the tutorial itself is the number 1 problem ,

when i started making cdlcs i just spent very few time in looking on them and got the idea of how to make the cdlcs and almost haven't looked on a tutorial ever since

, the problem is more that people dont really have a urge to make cdlcs , maybe because they look on this website and seeing so many cdlcs and not really knowing which cdlc to make , and needs more words of an experience people like what people recommend me and some other motivations i dont really have in mind

22 hours ago, arrov said:

...and I think the commenting system on CDLC is just fine for users saying thanks, the problem is just the psychology of people in general... Its not an issue with this site only, its every site I participate in that involves sharing stuff you worked on. Most people just don't care enough to say thanks if they are basically anonymous. It doesn't change their experience so they don't care

 

8 hours ago, Dardo said:

If people like something they'll usually not say it. If they dislike it they'll shout it. This works for most stuff in life.

 

thats very very true , i was like that not gonna lie and as a charter that made a quite good amount of cdlcs i was getting alot of those i really hate that now but even so this is very hard to appreciate everything people do for you in life , the thing is that making cdlcs is very demanding and people dont get how frustrating it is for someone that put alot of work on them

 

i cant really describe how hard its felt

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21 minutes ago, yaniv800 said:

i dont think that thats the tutorial itself is the number 1 problem ,

when i started making cdlcs i just spent very few time in looking on them and got the idea of how to make the cdlcs and almost haven't looked on a tutorial ever since

, the problem is more that people dont really have a urge to make cdlcs , maybe because they look on this website and seeing so many cdlcs and not really knowing which cdlc to make , and needs more words of an experience people like what people recommend me and some other motivations i dont really have in mind

 

Speaking as someone who was trying to look through the various tutorials recently to figure things out, I can say its definitely a problem. I made a few CDLC some years back which weren't too demanding & I didn't fully understand what I was doing. I recently came back and had to re-learn how to create CDLC. 

It was a pretty big obstacle figuring out how to do things. I had to stumble my way through and figure out a lot of stuff on my own. In EOF for example, its not very easy to find basic options like configuring notations (buried in sub-menus for Pro Guitar, etc). 

IMO all the older tutorials except for Firekorn should probably be deleted from site bc they caused me to waste more time than anything.. they are outdated with dead links and whatnot.

I made my short guide in my sig link and you can see a few people agreed that the tutorials are a bit lacking, or maybe its just hard to find specific info.

The progams are extremely lacking on documentation (that I could find) making it not easy to learn just basic functionality unless its covered in the guides (and it often isn't). The forum search was a big problem also. If I was trying to find some help on a particular problem, its not easy to search and find what you need.

 

I'm sure its much easier to find quick help on Discord, but I don't use Discord and I'm sure a lot of would-be charters don't either

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2 hours ago, arrov said:

Lately there have been some users leaving a few nice comments though

Activity in comment have somewhat picked up. In regards to critcism, it's harder to get people to comment like that because most wouldn't even be able to tell what is a problem or not so that's why there isn't all that many doing it.

That's also a complicated thing, to educate even random user on what is good and bad in a CDLC isn't an easy job.

1 hour ago, yaniv800 said:

the report system is good i guess , maybe will be better if there will be a system that will reminds people to report a bad cdlc like "have you enjoyed the cdlc you download of this charter ? if not report here"

That's the ideal goal but it's work and time. A lot of those things aren't that we don't want them, we really do want to integrate those things. It's just not that easy to do.

 

1 hour ago, arrov said:

Speaking as someone who was trying to look through the various tutorials recently to figure things out, I can say its definitely a problem. I made a few CDLC some years back which weren't too demanding & I didn't fully understand what I was doing. I recently came back and had to re-learn how to create CDLC. 

If you have any idea to improve it, please share them. I'd agree a good cleaning of all the outdated and useless tutorial could definitely be helpful. It's not that much work to do so i should probably get around that sooner rather than later but that's also why my tutorial is the only one that is directly available from the top link. That's all one should need to click to get started really.

 

1 hour ago, arrov said:

The progams are extremely lacking on documentation (that I could find) making it not easy to learn just basic functionality unless its covered in the guides (and it often isn't). The forum search was a big problem also. If I was trying to find some help on a particular problem, its not easy to search and find what you need.

EOF have a huge doc but there's a lot that is aimed toward GH/RB custom which don't really help for people solely looking into RS CDLC. As much as i would love to have a dedicated software for RS specifically, no one made such a tool so far so we make do with what we have. It's also why my tutorial definitely give more detail about the toolkit/DLC Builder aspect of things as that's where things aren't exactly explained and a lot of what goes in EOF are details that are quite situational too so making proper tutorial about it gets even harder.

 

1 hour ago, arrov said:

I'm sure its much easier to find quick help on Discord, but I don't use Discord and I'm sure a lot of would-be charters don't either

It helps to be able to have a direct communication with either experience charter or dev of the tools which makes things far more responsive than the forum is for that kind of quick Q&A. I can understand it's not for all though but that does yield better/faster result than the forum.

 

1 hour ago, yaniv800 said:

but as far as i know 4 years ago people was alot more passionate in making things together and now days it doesn't really happens alot

It happens, just not all that plubicly. I'm behind a small group over discord of a few charter where we use each other for QC before publishing (shout out to @palms46 @Radekore and @Karmeleaux) but i specifically consider who i put into that group based on the quality of what they've done already and i'm fairly certain other people have kinda created their own little bubble here and there so there's definitely people working together, i'd say even more so than 4 years ago cause i haven't really see many sucessfull group on the forum over the years. But that kind of thing is also a workload if you want something that actually stand the test of time. Not that many people can carry that for a long time.

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I can appreciate Discord being a very useful tool for quickly addressing specific questions, but the problem is that this knowledge isn't put online for others with the same questions to benefit from. Since EOF is lacking RS oriented documentation, it would be extremely helpful to start building our own sort of simple doc, maybe FAQ style which can be continually updated with whatever is relevant

Its also important IMO to have the info in a easy to navigate, text only structure as opposed to in a video or in the middle of a full guide, because when starting out you will often need to go back and reference multiple times.

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