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Some questions about chords

- - - - - cldc eof chords rocksmith 2014 double stop

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21 replies to this topic

#1
Offline   pslehisl

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Hey everyone, this is my first post here. I'm fairly new to CDLC, but after a couple weeks I think I get the whole process pretty well. I'm still getting used to Editor on Fire, especially since most tutorials revolve around importing Guitar Pro tabs while I prefer inputting the notes directly into EOF. I understand beat mapping, sustaining notes, bends, slides, fret hand positions, tech notes, all that good stuff. There are some things I have a few questions about though:

 

1. Is there a way to remove chord names on double stops?

 

333ecue.png

 

Or even chord names on any kind of chord? But double stops especially shouldn't have names, right? My workaround has been to go to Note > Edit Name and type a space " " which would clear it, and it seems to look fine ingame. Is there a better way to do this?

 

2. How do you work with chord "phrases"?

 

There's probably a better term for that... By "chord phrase" I mean the blue lines that extend from a chord outline, and the "blank" outlines mean you repeat the same chord, until the phrase ends. The repeated chords are slashes [/] in EOF.

 

2uoj62x.png

 

In this example, the first [A5] starts a chord phrase and the [/] repeats that chord. The palm mutes cut the phrase off, and a new phrase starts with the second [A5] and [/]. How can I make it so these two phrases are connected as one phrase? The second [A5] would then be another [/] instead and the palm mutes would be "extra" notes within the phrase.

 

I've seen some songs do this (watch the intro of Dream On). I think it looks better and smarter that way.

 

23rpwjn.png

 

On the other hand... here are two pairs of [E5] chords. As you can see there's a gap between the first pair and the second. But the second pair is just more [/], meaning it continues from the first pair, and ingame these pairs are part of the same chord phrase and connected regardless of the gap between them. How can I split these pairs into two separate chord phrases, even though they're the same chord?

 

v3h8gx.jpg

 

3. And finally... how do I fix this?

 

I pressed the wrong button too many times and I flipped it upside down hahaha



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#2
Offline   raynebc

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1. It's valid for double stops to have names, ie. power chords do. There's no better way to override the chord name in EOF than manually naming them with a space like you mentioned. You can do this for several selected notes at once (ie. you can select a chord and use select like with CTRL+L to select all matching chords), so it doesn't necessarily take long.

2. I believe what you're referring to is a handshape phrase. You could try placing a "handshape" phrase (select the first and last A5 in your example and use Note>Rocksmith>Handshape>Mark). To force a new handshape tag between two instances of the same chord, try marking the chord you want to be at the start of the new handshape phrase and mark it as "crazy" (select only it and use "Note>Toggle crazy"). As a side effect this will also cause it to display with a new chord box instead of just a repeat line. I don't think that can be avoided but if it was it would probably require placing a handshape phrase that started before the chord, ie. place a note temporarily, use it to mark the beginning of the handshape and then delete the temporary note after you place the phrase.

3. You can use either "CTRL+\" or "CTRL+Numpad Enter" to reset the camera angle for the 3D preview. Otherwise you can just use \ and SHIFT+\ to lower or raise the camera angle.

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#3
Offline   pslehisl

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Thanks for your help, but placing a handshape didn't work like I expected:

 

33jjy1f.png

 

fjevli.png

 

The first pair of chords display as normal, and both pairs are separate now. But the first chord in the second pair doesn't have a chord box or chord name like the one in the first pair, and since it's "crazy" the notes also have a sustain tail. I could fix that by making it 1ms long, but how can I make it a "new" chord box like the first one?



#4
Offline   Alex360

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@pslehisl, make it crazy too, or edit xml and apply highdestiny = 0 on that chord, well, It's easy to add crazy statuses tho

 

listen to raynebc



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#5
Offline   raynebc

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I forgot that the handshape tag breaks up chords into single notes, which is how the logic for arpeggio and handshape phrases in EOF are meant to work. You'll have to use the crazy status instead of handshape, remove the handshape tag and you can leave the "crazy" status on that third chord (this status was automatically applied when you added the handshape earlier, you can tell when a note has this status because the boxes with the fret numbers has a black background instead of white). After this change, it exported to XML the way that should produce the desired results.

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#6
Offline   pslehisl

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Thanks, that worked perfectly!

 

What exactly does crazy do? Does it just ignore matching chords and force a new chord box?

 

Also, how do you pre-set the length of notes before you place them? I know in the preferences you can default each note to 1ms but how do you set your own duration? Every time I want an eighth note for example I have to manually use the mouse wheel



#7
Offline   Alex360

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@pslehisl, you need to set a grid snap it controls default note length, edit>grid snap, If i remember right



#8
Offline   pslehisl

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@Alex360 setting it through the menu fixes it. But sometimes I'll be on 1/16 or something and I'll switch to 1/8 but the note lengths will stay at 1/16, or sometimes it will go down to 1ms. I don't know if there's a key that makes that happen because I must have hit it on accident. But once the note lengths start ignoring the grid snap, using left/right arrow keys doesn't fix it (I use Feedback input mode), but Edit > Grid Snap does...



#9
Offline   Alex360

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@pslehisl, @raynebc i think vve found a small bug? it's not that annoying, but it probabl exist



#10
Offline   raynebc

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If you can find a way to reproduce that behavior, let me know, but I haven't seen it happen. Keep in mind the grid snap setting changes the length for newly added notes. Changing the length of existing notes would be as easy as moving the scroll wheel or pressing the [ or ] keys. The only time newly placed notes should be given a length of 1ms is if that user preference is enabled.

About "crazy" status, it was originally added as a way to author notes that overlap each other, but it was dual-purposed to be used in Rocksmith authoring as a way to force a chord to be "low density" (ie. a chord box instead of a repeat line).

#11
Offline   pslehisl

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@raynebc, I think I figured part of it out...

 

You know how when you hover your mouse over the piano roll, it shows a line that snaps to the grid snap based on your mouse's x position? Newly added notes will be as long as your grid snap only if you have your mouse over the piano roll. If your mouse is somewhere else, new notes will use the last grid snap you used before you moved your mouse away. (I only tried this with Feedback input)

 

So, say your grid snap is 1/8 and your mouse is over the piano roll, new notes should be 1/8 long. Say you move your mouse off the EOF window or something and switch the grid snap to 1/12. New notes will still be 1/8 long. You can step through the track at the correct grid snap but until you move your mouse back over the piano roll the note length will stay the same no matter what you set your grid snap to.

 

I'm still not sure what sets the length to 1ms... unless there's a keyboard shortcut for that user preference that I hit on accident?



#12
Offline   raynebc

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I can reproduce that.  Feedback input mode is really different from the other ones, so it wouldn't surprise me if this was the only one that could be used to trigger this.  I'll see if I can fix it.



#13
Offline   pslehisl

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Sounds great, thanks @raynebc

 

But I think I can explain one of my first questions better. Is there something that works the opposite way as crazy, so instead of forcing a new chord box it forces a repeat box? So it would ignore notes that are different than the original chord.

 

That way for a chord phrase you aren't limited to only playing that chord, you can have other notes within that phrase but when you actually repeat the chord it can just be a repeat box instead of a whole new chord phrase?

 

Like this...

 

xpse9l.png

 

The actual "chord" is the purple and green, and there are repeat boxes despite the orange notes. In this case all three strings are part of the fingering. It's almost similar to an arpeggio... buuuuuut it isn't technically

 

Is this possible in EOF? Or would you have to edit the xml and do something like set highDensity to 1? I'm not home right now so I can't test that yet but if you have any tips I would very much appreciate it



#14
Offline   raynebc

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There's not currently a way to author that in EOF because handshape and arpeggio phrases both have chords within them split up into single notes.  In order to make handshapes more useful though, perhaps the logic can change so that chords split up into single notes for normal arpeggio phrases, but not for handshape phrases.  Does anybody have any concerns about that?  If it would be problematic maybe we could change the crazy status behavior for chords within an arpeggio/handshape and force it to neither cause a chord to export as low density (new handshape, new chord box) nor split up into single notes (this was needed in general for some reason I don't immediately remember).  There shouldn't be a need for the crazy status behavior of forcing a new handshape in the middle of an arpeggio because that would defeat the purpose of the arpeggio phrase.



#15
Offline   pslehisl

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@raynebc, I was thinking more about how two consecutive, identical chords already create a repeat box automatically, and are connected by the blue phrase line ingame. Instead of using an arpeggio or a handshape, maybe there could be a new mark, similar to crazy, for a note or a different chord to be ignored by this phrase, as if it's on its own "voice", eg. the orange notes in my screenshot. (If it was a chord it would obviously have to be split up. So it'd work like an arpeggio/handshape does. It'd just be based off the normal, automatic phrase that gets created so it allows for repeat boxes and stuff.)



#16
Offline   raynebc

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What you're asking for is generally what the handshape tag is meant to be as far as I can tell.  If I'm not mistaken, the main way to control whether a chord is displayed as a chord box or a repeat line is to change how the handshape tag is written in the XML file.



#17
Offline   th1rtyf0ur

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Is there something that works the opposite way as crazy, so instead of forcing a new chord box it forces a repeat box? So it would ignore notes that are different than the original chord. That way for a chord phrase you aren't limited to only playing that chord, you can have other notes within that phrase but when you actually repeat the chord it can just be a repeat box instead of a whole new chord phrase?

Like this...

 

xpse9l.png

 

The actual "chord" is the purple and green, and there are repeat boxes despite the orange notes. In this case all three strings are part of the fingering. It's almost similar to an arpeggio... buuuuuut it isn't technically

 

Is this possible in EOF? Or would you have to edit the xml and do something like set highDensity to 1? I'm not home right now so I can't test that yet but if you have any tips I would very much appreciate it

 

I think this is the same thing I asked for in this thread, which is now implemented (although I haven't gotten around to testing it yet):

http://customsforge....otes-at-a-time/



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#18
Offline   firekorn

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I have never been able to have a repeat box appear when there's something else between both chords so far.

 

The best i was able to create and that was even before the recent modification with the ghost handshape is that :

https://youtu.be/PuM92gFmuxE?t=3m25s

 

It's close to what you want with a full chord box instead of a repeat box.

 

PS : the screen used for the repeat pane with note in the middle is coming from Dream On by Aerosmith and if Raynebc want the xml file to this song i can share them easily as i own this song.


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#19
Offline   raynebc

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@firekorn, even something like this doesn't work?
new%20handshape%20chord%20logic_zps40j2t

It exports as follows:
    <chordTemplate chordName="E7sus4" displayName="E7sus4" finger0="-1" finger1="-1" finger2="-1" finger3="-1" finger4="-1" finger5="-1" fret0="0" fret1="0" fret2="0" fret3="-1" fret4="-1" fret5="-1"/>
    <chordTemplate chordName=" " displayName=" " finger0="-1" finger1="-1" finger2="-1" finger3="-1" finger4="-1" finger5="-1" fret0="0" fret1="0" fret2="-1" fret3="-1" fret4="-1" fret5="-1"/>
...
        <note time="1.750" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="1" sustain="0.125" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
...
        <chord time="1.500" linkNext="0" accent="0" chordId="0" fretHandMute="0" highDensity="0" ignore="0" palmMute="0" hopo="0" strum="down">
          <chordNote time="1.500" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="0" sustain="0.000" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
          <chordNote time="1.500" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="1" sustain="0.000" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
          <chordNote time="1.500" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="2" sustain="0.000" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
        </chord>
        <chord time="2.000" linkNext="0" accent="0" chordId="1" fretHandMute="0" highDensity="0" ignore="0" palmMute="0" hopo="0" strum="down">
          <chordNote time="2.000" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="0" sustain="0.000" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
          <chordNote time="2.000" linkNext="0" accent="0" bend="0" fret="0" hammerOn="0" harmonic="0" hopo="0" ignore="0" leftHand="-1" mute="0" palmMute="0" pluck="-1" pullOff="0" slap="-1" slideTo="-1" string="1" sustain="0.000" tremolo="0" harmonicPinch="0" pickDirection="0" rightHand="-1" slideUnpitchTo="-1" tap="0" vibrato="0"/>
        </chord>
...
        <handShape chordId="0" endTime="2.125" startTime="1.500"/>
The handshape tag encompasses both chords and the single note.

#20
Offline   Chlipouni

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@firekorn,

 

  As raynebc said, EOF now supports the "handShape phrase".

 

  See the following example :

 

handshape-phrase.png

 

Chords are classical ones (no specific status on them).

Single notes between each chord are standard too (just a PM on them).

You need to add an handShape phrase between the first chord and the last note of this sequence.

 

As result you obtain :

- The first chord which appears complete in the game (box + notes + name)

- A unique handshape for all chords and notes (continuous line + finger positions)

- The two last chords are displayed with a repeated box (without chord notes and without chord name)

 

So, this functionality is easy to use, we just need to add an handShape phrase