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Are COUNT and END phrases needed anymore?


raynebc
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@@raynebc , hello. long time no see, yes im back. and i did create a new song over the last 2 days, and not remembering exactly how to do it, i did NOT have a count and end phrase in eof. (it gave me a warning about no count phrase), but the song apears to work just fine.

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Welcome back. EOF will place those phrases automatically and only complain when its preferred beats for one/both of them are occupied with other phrases. If you could manually edit the XMLs to ensure neither phrase is included and the resulting custom is not adversely affected, it would be an ideal test.

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I did some quick testing. One problem that's immediately obvious for not having an empty phrase at the beginning (doesn't matter if it's called "COUNT" or "default" or whatever) is that the first phrase will be invisible:

 

http://i.imgur.com/AhUNnG0.jpg

 

 

The END phrase controls where the note highway cuts off. The ODLC "Yasashiku Naritai" doesn't have it in the rhythm arrangement, and the note highway doesn't cut off as the song fades out. However, in the two tests that I did, it does cut off right at the end of the audio.

 

Also, EOF gives a warning if there is no intro section, but that is not needed either.

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That's good information. EOF's default placement of all of these phrases creates the necessary empty phrase before the first playable note occurs (avoiding the bar graph error) and puts the END phrase at the first beat that occurs after the last playable note.

 

I suppose some better logic would be for EOF to not complain about there being no "COUNT" phrase as long as there's ANY empty phrase before the first playable note. If all beat markers up to the first note have phrases already, I'd have to come up with something as EOF doesn't currently have a way to store events that aren't on a beat marker.

 

Some chart authors may prefer to have the chart play until the end of the audio, but EOF tries to force the inclusion of the END phrase at the first beat that occurs after the last playable note in an arrangement. The two options here are:

1. If that beat already has a phrase, try to automatically place the END phrase further toward the end of the song audio.

2. Not place the END phrase automatically, requiring the author to place it if they don't want the chart to play until the end of the audio.

 

EOF has added the END phrase for years, so a change to this could take many people by surprise. Is there a censensus on how this should be approached, perhaps a user preference (enabled by default) for whether EOF tries to add the END phrase automatically? That way, the people who want to could change that behavior.

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@@raynebc i would love to be able to put section NOT on a beat marker as i think some ODLC does that.

 

Note that RS will only close the venue and end the song when the audio end, the END phrase will only make the highway transparent (without any FHP) if i'm not mistaking and i wouldn't be surprised if it's related to the play counter too but that's harder to figure out and i don't have the tools or the time to test it...

 

TBH, i don't see any reason to change the behavior of the END phrase as it has never been an issue and i don't think anyone actually really care about the placement of that END phrase...

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@@raynebc but that must be about the count phrase and that would be because they don't do their customs the way ODLC are made and EOF SHOULD warn them about it. The END phrase is a totally different matter and i've never had any warning regarding that or any issue.

 

For people that have issue with the COUNT phrase, their is built in function inside EOF that allow to fix it in a matter of second so i'm not sure helping people keeping their bad habit is the best way to handle such a case.

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I was referring to the warning about the END phrase.

 

I don't think the improved logic for COUNT is something to consider a problem, it allows the author to use a phrase name other than "COUNT" if they wish (as some ODLC does). And EOF can give more specific warnings and recommended fixes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

@@raynebc,

 

  For your information, DDC adds automatically the "COUNT" and "END" phrases if they are missing.

  I don't know if the tests has been made with DDC or not, but before removing those phrases in EOF it should be better to evaluate the RS stabilitiy without DDC ...

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