Jump to content

Is there a time where we start to 'reach out' to tutors/authors for permission to make educational non profit cdlc?


Rockinbiscuit
 Share

Recommended Posts

First off, I didn't get to post in the closed topic, so I thought I'd start a new one in general on the subject of not just this author/tutor, but many.

 

I have recently seen this thread:

http://customsforge.com/topic/16561-guitar-aerobics/

.... and even with the reasons that were given, that were understandable to an extent, I'm unsure as to weather or not this cdlc should have stayed or went.

 

As the case with a fair few here, I would never have even heard about the book until I saw that this cdlc did exist.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Troy-Nelson-Guitar-Aerobics-Book/dp/1423414357

 

Is there a time where we should start to 'reach out' to tutors/authors for permission to make educational non profit cdlc?

 

For example we could send a message to Troy here and ask the man ourselves:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Troy-Nelson/443972765663345

 

I done the same when I started trying to tab out and make cdlc of Daniel Tidwell's music and the reply was nice:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v200/nero041001/Guitar/dan.jpg

 

I have been chatting to him for a while now, he's a lovely chap.

 

Other people to consider is Andy Crowley (No books yet, but there are some coming):

https://www.youtube.com/user/andycrowley

 

and also Justin Sandercoe (Plenty of books, dvds and cds, but he offers everything online for free):

https://www.youtube.com/user/JustinSandercoe/featured?spfreload=10

 

I'm awaiting Andy's first books and bought a few of Justins books, and because of this site and the cdlc that was removed I'll also be purchasing Troy's Guitar Aerobics book and also noticed he has a couple of other books that I'll purchase too as I progress.

 

If Laro doesn't feel comfortable in contacting Troy, I'll happily do it on his behalf, the worst that can happen with any tutor/author is them saying 'no.' :)

 

What do you think of 'reaching out' like this?

Would it be a good idea for the forum?

 

I'm sure it'll be good for the author, as even if 70% of cdlc users do not buy the book, it sounds like around 30% (including myself.... just putting the order in now) will end up buying the book as it's not often you'd have a book, cd and cdlc all to compliment to each other and looking at the book, it'd give more information about what your doing, so some of the aforementioned 70% might pick it up as well as we're all here to learn :)

 

tris

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have found most You Tuber's quite nice and chat to them now and again, they are pretty busy so it takes a couple of days to reply sometimes.

Daniel was awesome about it, such a nice chap to speak to. I went on to kickstart his latest album with a digital everything all his albums etc.... it's all funded now and almost finished. He's a great guitarist and plays everything by ear.... so sadly no tabs, but he's a lovely chap.

 

There are a lot of great guitarists on you tube doing game, movie themes etc.... not something you'll find on any cds, and they sell their stuff through itunes and the like. I have spoken to a few now and they are great people :)

 

tris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't think of that, thought they might jump in on this thread and have a discussion when they have some spare time.

 

I'm not sure how or if it's a good idea or not, but as well as you tube artists we could get in touch with games musicians etc.... too. Never know, it may spark their interest in them contacting ubi and making some official rocksmith dlc one day too since ubi seem to be holding onto 2014 for the foreseeable future :)

 

tris

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About contacting Troy Nelson for Guitar Aerobics, feel free to do it. I'm not interested since I'm doing another CDLCs and when I'll end the cover I'm doing right now I'll make some exercises of ear training by myself, but there are other users who continued making the CDLCs of Guitar Aerobics for themselves and if you got the permission they could be able to post it here.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

i've been doing this with magfest artists. ( http://magfest.org/- its an event i help run )

 

the response has been mostly positive, but .... the realities of life get in the way. many of the musicians have never written down what they're doing, many of them are just too busy, and thats the ones that 'get' it when i explain it. lots of people have no idea rocksmith exists.

 

i'm trying.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

Well Ubisoft just buy the right, the chart is build by RS teams and they have to figure out a lot of things (they are not always aware of what tuning was used during recording).

 

I think artist can mostly help on the tone because they might have a better knowledge of what amp and pedal they mostly use but that's it. For the rest having the artist approval or not will not change the fact that a lot of work has to be done and that chart is a complex things to make and it's on the charter hands to do the best, not the artist.

  • Like 1

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Maybe i got something wrong 'cause im stressed at the moment, or im just to stupid. But do i get it wrong, u say it would be great to ask the Artist/Author of the songs himself for there Permission to use their songs? I mean its a good idea because what else then No they could say? But i also made it once for my ASP Song. I know a german Band, but Asp himself answering and say it would be great if i do it, even if he had no clue what im talking about. But the point is even if he allow it, the Record Lable could still say NO. Because most oft the time, depening on the Contract if im not wrong, has the Lable the rights of the songs not the Artist himself. But if u would just make CDLC of some YT Stars there would be defently no problem at least those are no covers.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

It's true that even by asking the artist you might actually not ask the person that owns the right to the song you want to work on.

Youtuber or even small artist that you can find on Bandcamp can owns the right to their own songs or not.

 

Covers is a bit more complex area because the cover artist own the right to the song they created (which seems fair since they still created something) but they are at the mercy of the original writer on some legal area.

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Covers is a bit more complex area because the cover artist own the right to the song they created (which seems fair since they still created something) but they are at the mercy of the original writer on some legal area.

Covers are very very complex. Because there is no clear definition what is a cover. For example, Depech Mode - Enjoy the silence been "covered" by Lacuna Coil. But in this case u could say it is a reinterpretation instead of a cover. So which Lable has the rights for the song of Lacuna Coil when i would do it for RS14? Do i have to ask for permission by the Lable of  Depeche Mode or by the Lable of Lacuna Coil? In this case it would be probably Lacuna Coil. But as long there is no clear rules its hard to say.

 

But even without the permission of a Lable, we shouldn't forget one thing. We creat non profit CDLC, for education reasons. That means it is allowed by the copyright law, as long the Lable doesnt say anything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well me ,too i'm no Lawyer. But i can only say what i know and it's base on the Copyright law:

The U.S. Copyright Law
 

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair.

 

  1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes


The german Copyright Law

 

Article 53 Reproduction for Private and Other Personal Uses (1) It shall be permissible to make single copies of a work for private use. A person authorized to make such copies may also cause such copies to be made by another person; however, this shall apply to the transfer of works to video or audio recording mediums and to the reproduction of works of fine art only if no payment is received therefor.
 

 



 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

So that's it for this topic? It started really interesting and ended up in some weakly motivated self-censorship.

 

1. Copyright laws never had as main intention to protect the artist, but to protect all kind of investors (managers, publisher, distributors) to calculate their profits. The artist will allow, he wants to be known, the investor wants his money back, or even some of his lost investment on a marginal artist.

 

2. There is absolutely no copyright infringement by transposing a DVD from a teaching artist, publishing it for free and educational purpose, giving the teacher more visibility for his product : It's free advertisement for the guy, and his money-givers.

 

3. There is still no copyright infringement if there is a complaint against the charter or the site. However the site administrators are well advised to keep the vulture eyes of lawyers away, by prohibiting Brand names (Petrucci) being used in exercises.

 

4. There is copyright infringement when the court, at the last available appeal, has decided so. Of course noone wants to go all that way.

 

We can all borrow parts of exercises here and there, and noone will notice or look inside the cDLC, to claim rights.

Just don't use names. There is copyright on the "Name" not the exercises included.

 

Songs are creative, and belong to artists,

exercises are not, they belong to nobody anyway, they have all been done before, long before, 1000 years before, they are public domain.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest cuddabuddaYo

"1. Copyright laws never had as main intention to protect the artist"

 

Do a little research on copyright law history and you'll find that you are absolutely 100% wrong about this. And you also clearly are not a lawyer. No lawyer would make the claims that you have and mistake copyright for trademark as you just did. There's a reason why it's illegal in the US to practice law without being an actual licensed attorney. Incorrect legal advice is dangerous.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not practicing law and I'm not giving legal advice. And I don't threaten anybody, either. ;)

 

I'm adding an opinion about how I feel on application of laws, not about theoretical writings, which must have a purpose of public interest. How about Monsanto's claims of copyright,  yes, it's about patents, not trademarks.

Ever heard of "externalities"?

 

Applications may vary from country to country, and investors will not claim copyright infringement in undeveloped country against people who have nothing to pay. They rather become busy in a rich country like Sweden than the Island of Réunion. 

There is a relationship between Trademark and Copyright, as one helps to justify the other.

 

Justice will also respond differently, depending on the pressure a Government can put on another Government.

 

Laws are made to cause fear, and to keep activities restricted to the few hands of business, preventing people to have free access to educational material and exercise and distribute their culture freely.

 

Copyright may have an indirect effect of limiting creativity (human activity) for the sake of individual greed. Just check out what a free artist let loose, like Buckethead, can create, instead of having his activity restricted by contracts with the business world. :lol:

And I'm sure he will not sue me for my customs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

You are mixing stuff that have little to no relation at all, copyright, trademark and patent all behave very differently and have different purpose.

 

The vision you have about law is yours and doesn't come in that discussion as this topic is about what the law authorize or not and not how you perceive the law itself.

 

Note that buckethead did signed contract during his carrier with major company for many of his album...

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm currently trying to push the educational, teaching aspects of RS, 

This topic did not advance, ended up dead, because of a presumed violation of law,

resulting in self-censorship, instead of opportunities.

 

Most often it's recommended to have a wider view of things, no matter what they are called.

Law is a government language and as such, you should be aware of possible "newspeak"

Copyright, Trademark, Patent is all about disproportionate "EGO",

motivated by greed instead of sharing.

These laws may not always be fair.

 

A violation of law is not something that "is", by nature, that people can see or judge.

Only judges of up to the highest courts can do this.

And even then, its contestable.

 

“One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws.

Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws.”
― Martin Luther King Jr.,

 

Justice is something we have to fight for, as well as Freedom.

Fighting means taking risks, constantly, it's not coming for free. 

That's particularly true on the Internet. And this site.

 

Most artists don't care about copyright.

Copying among artist is done permanently, they call it inspiration.

Worse, their companies urge them to do commercial conventional stuff.

That's why they end up with the music styles of the 60ies, 70ies, 80ies ...

Check out the reason behind the making of "2112"

 

Of course, big money artist, under heavy contracts and grip of managers have no choice, no freedom, losing their creativity.

They end up singing the same couple of songs, that's why Buckethead left that big business band.

 

There is no reason, why we could not use an exercise that may have been used in a book.

Some teaching DVD's use drum patterns, and do we have to be afraid that our drum pattern has been used somewhere ?

 

I suggest to avoid Trademark names in exercises and not to copy exact lessons which are not  declared free by the author.

Complete Lessons with a pattern of exercises accompanied by instructions and theory may have a copyright issue.

 

Let's get inspired of official teaching exercises, and build some of our own, and why not, work together, and forget the ego for once.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

You have no idea what artist are doing or under which grip they are nor what their contract oblige them to (hint the more known the artist the less restraint they actually tend to have over major company).

 

I don't say we shouldn't dissobey laws if it is necessary or if the law is unfair but you have no idea what copyright law have been made for since they are not for greed but to protect artist from the thief and it's still the case and if an artist really care about making his work available their is way inside the law to do so (look for the creative common license for exemple).

 

I seriously think you should study the actual copyright law of the different country before going in a fight against them.

 

 

I suggest to avoid Trademark names in exercises and not to copy exact lessons which are not  declared free by the author.

Complete Lessons with a pattern of exercises accompanied by instructions and theory may have a copyright issue.

 

Let's get inspired of official teaching exercises, and build some of our own, and why not, work together, and forget the ego for once.

 

So you suggest to respect the copyright laws and yet you don't want them to exist...

 

Nothing or no one has forbidden you to contact artist or author to get the authorization to use their work and make a cdlc out of it.

 

And nothing or no one has forbidden you to create your own exercise and share them as cdlc no matter what "inspired" you to create that exercise. Unless we could clearly state that you ripped someone else work at 99.9% in which case it could be discuss if it's inside the rule that the admin can tolerate but even in that case it would be a discussion to have and every one would have to prove their point before making any decision.

 

I don't think anyone censored themselves here or at least i didn't and i even encouraged the people that wanted to ask permission to do so.

 

The discussion died because there's not much to discuss here. The topic was answered as :

"Yes you can reach the author for permission but know that they might not have the full right on their own material".

 

If you have an issue with that answer, please say so but so far all you do is going off topic...

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry @@firekorn, I'm not in your line of first degree thinking,

to judge some and ignore some other of my quotes 

which leads you to misinterpretations.

 

I can't understand the need to simply transfer/copy a complete DVD/Book of an author.

I don't need laws to respect their work, and to outweigh if my action is going to support or spoil their effort.

 

My proposal for this topic is obvious - 

get inspired by the work of others,

don't ask for permission and

don't get blocked by not knowing who is or claims holding some rights.

 

Just do it with a natural morality based on altruism,

free your mind,

Music is free ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I'm pretty sure many artist would not think the same way (i don't though many of my work is available under creative common).

 

And for someone that ask if it's "ok to ask around", you answer that he shouldn't... If he wants to contact the author, i don't see any reason for him not to do so and if you don't want to do so, well go with it too!

If people censored themself in content creation because they know who owns the right of the material they are working on, it's really sad because as long as it's not pure copy of the original material there's not much the copyright law can actually do agaisnt you in theory and i know that to some extent this might not be 100% perfect in real life but still worth considering

 

I don't think i misinterpreted what you said and i only quoted a part of your post because it was the part i was specifically answering in my next line of text.

 

Morality is a philosophical concept which is in no way natural or doesn't make any reference to any natural element you can't ask for everyone to have the exact same morality as you...

 

The fact that you claim that you don't need law doesn't mean that you're above them or that you can just ignore them either and by ignoring all the things i mentionned about copyright law and the actual state of the law i think you are just going off topic.

 

What you are proposing is not opposed to the copyright law in France or in the US as far as i know (it might vary depending on how obvious you are about the inspiration you used but that's a point to be discussed after the facts).

 

And no music is not free, art is not free, or at least not in everyone mind ;)

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Art, where does it start anyway, to question it's freedom, and make you pay for it ?

How much do documentaries pay to record native cultures ?

Copyright is a typical concept of the western conquistadors.

Everything has to be owned, land, art, nature.

Next will be yourself.

 

A country of SACEM has given up principles of liberté,

for the sake of profit, which turns Art into slavery, and like everything, drying it out.

You can hardly find any educational and transcribed musical material from France.

 

Values of morality may not be identical, but they can be directly discussed by the concerned people.

Which should have been the answer in this topic.

 

Instead, you prefer law, discussed and answered by non-concerned people, who have foreign interests in mind, like

the predominance of the legal system and their representatives,

the protection of the economic system and their leaders,

Culture and the people, art & artists, are none of their concern. 

 

The more laws they make, the less they will be noticed.

I may not be above, rather beyond, 

its really nothing I ever ask myself, if its legal or not.

 

I rather go for "is it respectful or not, would I be offended if it were done to me?"

So simple, this natural morality.

 

But this notion of freedom and peace obviously disturbs those who accept oppression.

I'm sure you will have a last word ^_^

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrator

I really don't know how to take your message. it's almost an insult as you once again claim things that are not true that concern me in many different ways...

 

If you want to debate around philosophical concept be my guest but as i already said this is not the topic. If you really wish to go on with that conversation i'll be please to do so but in an appropriate topic. :)

Firekorn's workshop
In Flames Discography

#FirekornHasDoneNothingForTheCommunity

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't see no intention to insult, I don't intend, (you may p.m. me to explain)

and about the topic, it is re-oxygenated by a larger view, which was my intention, it has its own dynamics, which flows until closed.

 

I hope I see some educational stuff soon, to be placed in "my" Exercise collection.

Because as I said before, the topic really started in an interesting way, but was not followed by deeds, only by words.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread is quite old. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. - Privacy Policy