shrubbery

Why not just declare the section with a section marker instead of beat text? The more elaborate a beat text system gets, ie."tone:songname_distortion:section:intro:phrase:intro1", the harder it would be for people to use.

Because there's already phrase name and you can put "section marker" only on measure boundary. 

I don't see why this would be considered easier or faster than just defining the sections in EOF. As you said, an external text file defining sections would have to have timestamps in it, and then EOF would have to look for errors in the file and handle that gracefully, such as by fixing timestamps by finding the closest beat marker, etc. Doing something like this right would be a fair amount of programming work but I can't see what the benefit would be.

Maybe you just don't understand what I mean. Forget it, I'll just make a script that applies it directly to RS XML, I can script that in an hour or less with measure+beat support.edit: I doubt anyone will want it but I made the script (I guess it's not going to work as expected with stock toolkit GUI anyway). I might add another optional field to add offset (positive or negative number) to beat time if it's going to switch tone too late. Switch by phrase or section name would be easy too.

 

Is this suppose to mark the notes with tremolo or does it for example add 16 notes if the GP tab have a tremolo note marked with 1/16. Sorry for my bad explanation or if I'm off topic here.

 

 

It has to be in GP tab.  Without tremolo it's just a RS sustain (longer note), it's a technique applied to it.

 

And if I'd still have to import that file to GoPlayalong and still have to export that AGAIN to EOF... not thanks... that's just not efficient at all.

 

I think EOF has excellent potential for becoming a SINGLE tool for developing Rocksmith customs. In fact, it'd be nice if it focused more on Rocksmith and less on the older, outdated games it was originally designed for.

 

You don't need to reimport to GPA, you just need to reopen song and notes will be read from updated GP file.  So basically if you don't screw up you need do the sync import into EOF only once and then just reimport GP if needed, I don't touch EOF until I'm done and ready to make a package.

 

EOF supports a lot of stuff that can't be applied to GP tab but unfortunately its UI will be always very limiting.  It's basically too good to start from scratch.

 

I'm wishing that some Java wizard would try to implement direct RS support to TuxGuitar and I can definitely imagine it not to be overly complex with so much already available (reimplement export to RS XML with GPA sync points applied and a way to overlay information for additional RS features -- per track phrase/sections, more techniques, basically some notation for things you need to do in EOF).  But I'm not a Java programmer in the first place... (I would be willing to contribute knowledge, ideas for solutions and some code to such project though.)

When trying to import the GPA .xml I get error: file format not supported.

 

Any ideas why this would be happening?

 

 

Are you sure you are importing .xml file and not .gpax?  I think you need to check the checkbox to copy GP tab and audio when exporting.

 

 

Tremolo - EOF project needs to be set to remove difficulty limitations

 

This is something I missed when importing.

 

Can you explain a little more?

 

 

I didn't actually try it yet, but you have to go to Track menu (I think) and select the menu item to remove difficulty limit, levels in EOF will change ("Amazing" to "3").  Then import is supposed to include tremolo.

 

I would like to put measure+beat+tone (first one can be just base tone name) to some text file and it would be processed when RS XML is exported. It can be in song.ini for all I care, but timing by measure+beat would be as convenient as it gets.

I probably won't add support for an external text file just for this, but I may reconsider beat text, but it would have to be formatted pretty specifically (ie. "tone:[tone name here]").

 

 

It can't be just that, you need to be able to declare section along with that.  I would implement it myself but I just don't know the code that well to start right away.

 

I'm not sure why you think that processing external file upon RS export would be harder, I would think otherwise based on the way it is stored in RS XML and that could be done with piece of code dependent only by identifying time of particular beat.  If you can point me to relevant functions to calculate beat time I might just do that myself.

 

GPA is not for editing. Anyway, if I don't need to fix tab, I make DLC in about an hour from start to end, riff repeater included. I have nothing more to say.

This is also possible with EoF. Syncing is the easy part. Applying the proper techniques and fixing the tab is what takes time.

 

 

I don't want to sound that I'm trying to convince anyone, I couldn't care less what others do but I'm going to post this anyway. It's just my conclusion by weighting pros and cons, a helpful advice from me.

 

If you learn EOF well and don't mind it's quirks, you will be able to do sync in roughly the same time, it comes down to details.  I'm only against editing tab in EOF

 

I have to add that GPA works better with this approach and it has some unrelated upsides - I can play the song right there if I want to or while the package is not done yet or when I decide that parts or the tab are so bad that it is not worth continuing.

 

But to get back, If anyone (like I do) finds Guitar Pro or TuxGuitar to be vastly superior for editing musical notation then it should be known that you can get the same initial sync done without EOF, that's why I won't ever edit in EOF - I like the UI, I like having master tab, I like hearing the tab (all tracks at once), I like how it's easier to see changes in GPA (I try to sync and fix minor errors at the same time so it's very convenient, even more so if I would have two displays available).

 

Also without a doubt it will be easier for someone to enter the custom creation process this way, EOF is major turn off for someone who doesn't even know anything yet.  And even if you later decide to abandon master tab, you can just do that.  It's not possible the other way so it's the safe choice.

 

Adding special GP text notations for stuff that is easy to add in EOF seems like it would be more complicated than it has to be, and it would make the GP import code a little messier than it already is. I'd rather improve EOF's internal functionality by making it easier to author tone changes. What would you suggest to improve that, would adding a "copy" button (which copies the selected tone change to the selected beat) to the tone change list and names dialogs help? I still plan to add functionity that copies all tone changes from one track to another, I haven't forgotten about that one.

I would like to put measure+beat+tone (first one can be just base tone name) to some text file and it would be processed when RS XML is exported. It can be in song.ini for all I care, but timing by measure+beat would be as convenient as it gets.

GPA is not for editing. Anyway, if I don't need to fix tab, I make DLC in about an hour from start to end, riff repeater included. I have nothing more to say.

I recently made Espionage custom.

When you try to tab the bass you soon realize that it's not that easy to get it right. Lot's of tuplets and triplets between the beats. ;)

 

On a few occasions I tried to fix basslines and later I figured I can't really hear shit and had to put everything back.  I can barely fix obvious mistakes if I hear them clearly and see them in the sync, I have no idea how people come up with these tabs when bass is totally drowned.  Next time I get such a great idea I will have to equalize the crap out of it first.

We could definitely use some more reggae in RS. It seems that it's still a very highly under appreciated genre, because it seems so easy on the outside but is a lot more complex than the average listener may think. It would definitely help beginners to develop a better understanding of rhythmic guitar playing and may teach them some useful techniques for playing sweet little licks in between main phrases as well. And the bass players get served as well with some nice offbeat and sometimes also quite challenging rhythmic lines.

 

I will do more ska when I get a chance, which is a base for reggae.  There are so little tabs, it's not exactly popular.  But you are not right about bass, guitar plays on the off beat, bass plays with drums.

 

Someday I hope to be able to tab some Western Special guitars myself, some easy ska-jazz.

Most people maintain charts in EoF so changes are not propagated back to tab but I provide master tabs via my workshop (100% what is in Rocksmith, even more if it includes unsupported techniques).

 

And everyone has their own idea of perfect naming.  But I would definitely like to have band name, song name and version in the name (whatever formatting it might be) so I can see what it is and if it's the latest version.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this. If you didn't catch my intention, I was saying that people often slip up because they can't get around EoFs learning curve. And that the perceived learning curve is largely due to the fact that there aren't enough educational resources available.I wasn't trying to attack GoPlayAlong or yourself, if that's what you were thinking.

No, we're just discussing. I'm just stating some of the downsides of doing manual edits in EoF. It is a total dealbreaker for me, maybe not for you, but everyone should be aware of it and do the educated choice before he invests a lot of time into creating DLC.

In my experience, it's exactly the opposite. It was only frustrating for me when (it turned out) I didn't know what I was doing. Honestly, I just don't think there's a comprehensive video tutorial involving EoF. The ones that are out there, frankly, are only enabling people to make 2nd rate CDLCs and they don't teach them how to take full advantage of what EoF provides.I'll get off my soapbox now :)

 

And what will you do if you discover you have error in tab, cutting and pasting riffs all over the song in EoF?  No, thank you.

I can push as many code commits as I want, it's completely simple. Sometimes there are several commits between hotfixes. My making fewer, larger commits is a personal preference to keep the revision number from bloating up too quickly instead of a reflection on how easy or difficult SVN is to use.

 

Well, if it's your preference... I just hope you don't lose any code when your drive fails.

 

BTW do you see a way to author tone changes in GP tab?  (Maybe another use case for text marker descriptions along with arpeggio chord name and vibrato frequency).  I guess this one is not so important as they stay even if I clear events but entering it manually is not much fun.

I'll take a look at it. The way EOF calculates the beat timings makes the negative timestamps a bit troublesome, but I'll see what can be done. The timing is probably corrected at the first non negative sync point.

 It was getting late but I think I figured it out, the reason I described was correct but I know how to prevent it now (will try it out when I get home). Basically the EOF's assumption that first measure starts at 0:00 is different to GPA which seems to use steady BPM of the first link before it and therefore first measure will fall before or after 0:00.I placed first link on measure 19 and the tab starts earlier, I have to place the first one on/before the actual first note of any of the arrangements I care about. Because of the electronic backbeat it was properly synced but EOF shift of measure 1 to 0:00 threw it off.Unfortunately this is something you maybe won't be able to prevent because you need to know which GP track is to be imported and then check if the first note comes before first link. Or can you tell where the first link was after you import sync? 

I often work on several things before I commit the changes, but the next revision will probably be up very soon. I wanted to get the stop tech note status implemented first.

So you don't push commits until you do release? Damned SVN, you could be doing minor fixes with git branches easily...

I would advise against manual sync in EOF, its prone to errors and very frustrating. As was already mentioned, you don't need to care about tempo in tab if you use GPA. Have a look at tutorial for my workflow.

Yes, the bar graph. I created the DD using DDC, but I did it to the package and not to the .xml. Could be it?

Maybe. I don't know this part of code but if applying to package does not update manifest, that would be the reason for no bars in preview, but it should not affect the actual playthrough...

I can't make any guarantees, but if you can send me an example GPA file that has a negative timestamp, I'll see if there's a good way for EOF to handle that.  If not, I can ensure EOF complains about it more overtly.

 

That was not a point. The point is when start of first measure falls before zero (there is no actual link there), EOF will silently shift it to 0 and I don't really understand what happens because between measure 1 and 16 this shift is slowly corrected.  I'm sending you an example, you can compare sync times with actual EOF measure times and see and hear for yourself.

 

BTW you have yet to push the blank phrase fix

I bumped into GPA sync import bug (maybe not a bug but something EOF didn't complain loudly about). I found out it happens when start of first measure comes at -N seconds because there is steady BPM between 0 and first link but too little actual time. The result was that measures started shifted and by measure 15/16 it got to where they were supposed to be.

I tried to fix that by setting first measure at 0 and actualy placed it at slightly before 0 which caused EOF to complain about malformed XML (negative time), that's another bug. When I placed it slightly after 0, EOF set delay to 6 and everything matches. I've never seen delay after GPA import so probably all of my customs are affected?

So EOF should not import when this happens or fix it automatically (I was actually thinking if negative delay would be possible, that could be useful in some cases too and also would fix this).

update: it seems that not allowing to convert the delay caused riff repeater section weirdness, I am not able to select first section... (actually the second section appears to be first section, just weird) never mind, it was caused by blank phrase names again

So, I should add the silence in go playalong?

Before that of course, you can't do that.  And also add some empty measures at the start of GP tab.  If you follow order of actions in my tutorial you won't have to go back and re-sync.

Heres my work flow. Tell me if Im doing something wrong. once I have the tab from songster and the mp3,1 I open the tab in Go playalong and spend time synching the notes to the mp3,2 I export that3 Open EoF, load the mp3 add 3000ms of silence4 Load the xml from GoPlayalong and adjust the leading note of the 1st track (guitar)5 Add section names6 Load the xml bass part, I have to adjust the lead note of that too. I then go through the song and some of the notes arent syncing as I had them. I was doing an Opeth song Windowpane and the bass line was all messed again

First thing wrong is adding silence after sync, you can't move sync in GPA, you have to add silence first.And yes, you should be able to sync once and both guitar and bass should fall into place. Same with EOF, the sync is shared.

Thanks for the answers, I will let you know if I bump into more technique import/export issues.I think I saw you mention limitations with chord slides (slide all notes only by same offset?). I am also not aware of a way to add RS-style arpeggios to tab (might be the use case for special text marker description I was talking about). Are there any known chord and chordNotes related limitations? 

 

Do you know about techniques that could be downgraded into something else? Or is there already such conversion?

I don't understand the question.

 

I don't have any example but I meant that techniques not supported in RS would be converted into something that makes sense instead of being ignored. 

In Guitar Pro, you can select a note/chord and use the Effects>Slide menu to specify that the note/chord slides in from above/below or to slide out and upwards/downwards. This is the equivalent of unpitched slides in Rocksmith. However since Rocksmith doesn't support an unpitched slide in, EOF converts that as a slide from a lower note.

Not supported in TuxGuitar, I guess...BTW I started making notes about supported/unsupported techniques and issues in my tutorial (if anyone has some input on current state of import, how to tab various techniques or how to replace them with something similar, I will update it accordingly)

EOF is actually importing that as a difficulty-specific phrase, ie. it won't show up when the difficulty limit is in effect (ie. the difficulties are named instead of numbered), but if you remove the difficulty limit, it should show up. I'm not sure if it would be better or worse to change this behavior, it depends entirely on how the author is using GP files, some author each difficulty in Guitar Pro, some author only the full transcription.

I do only full transcription in EOF, I don't modify anything. I import into "Amazing" I guess, EOF starts like that by default, if that's what you mean by named. I'll look around for the tremolo.Do you know about techniques that could be downgraded into something else? Or is there already such conversion?As for more techniques I was not sure about:- "trill" which sounds in MIDI same as tremolo but goes to higher picking frequencies (tremolo 3 levels starting with 1/8 picking, trill has also 3 starting with 1/16 picking so two levels are translatable into tremolo)- slide that goes nowhere, I'm not sure what is that supposed (I think it's exported as 1 fret slide)So additional question is what are RS1/RS2 techniques which can't be imported from GP and do you see a way to do it?For example unpitched slides (I didn't find a way to do that in tab). I can imagine having some technique descriptions for such techniques in text notes and at some point I may write a code to do it (need to think about the format though, how long it can be and there can be a need for having both section name and technique description at single note).

Shrubbery, I'd be very interested to see a detailed tutorial on how you use Go Playalong( I'm assuming an export from there) to help the syncing process in EOF. I downloaded the trial version, and had great luck syncing up tabs to an MP3 that I was really having trouble with in EOF. I'm just unsure of exactly what you do from having it sync'd in GPA to facilitating it in EOF.

My tutorial is available again: http://customsforge.com/topic/856-tutorial-for-proper-initial-gp-tab-sync-to-audio-trackeof-updated/To answer your question, you have to export and you need a license to do that (I just say it's theoretically possible to read any GPA database with a program and export sync points). Exported XML file then can be imported into EOF.