How fast do you learn the songs?

[eezstreet]

I have been playing bass now for 8 months, and I feel quite self-conscious about my playing abilities. Some buddies have asked to jam in the past but I have been kicking my feet and turning them down because I just don't know if I'm good enough at it.

I was wondering - when you have a complex song, how long does it take you to get "good" at it? Because I tried Phantom of the Opera by Iron Maiden, and that's a tricky song in and of itself.

(not me playing it)

It took me like a week to get it down, but it's not really perfect. I struggle a bit with the solo.

 

Also, I seem to have a hard time with the power chords. The frets are kind of far apart, so I have to use my index finger and my pinky to do power chords. Is this normal? Or should I opt for a bass with a smaller neck?

[Sakata]

Hello there @eezstreet! I have been playing the guitar ever since the first RS came out and I will say it was a pain at first since I was so inexperienced and it didn't help that it was hard to remember songs at the time. I am more experienced at this moment and will say that you are doing just fine at your point! Keep practicing and you will get the hang of it, just believe in yourself more and also there is nothing wrong with using your index and pinky finger for power chords as it really depends on how you want to play it. If you are uncomfortable with your equipment then definitely go into your local music store and find whatever suits you haha, I've been using the same guitar for 5 years and it still serves me well! :D

 

[sharedmedia=videos:videos:1728]

 

Here's a video of me playing a custom of mine! I tend to switch from my 4th finger to my pinky randomly here

[albatross213]

@@eezstreet - Are you talking about for playing the song outside of Rocksmith? If so, I haven't really found playing the song through to be that effective in really learning it. Unless the riffs and song structure are relatively simple (which they definitely are not for Phantom of the Opera) I tend to need to slow things down significantly so I can have time to digest things and really internalize what comes next at every point in the song, as opposed to just reacting to what's on screen. "Slowing things down" can mean using RR (it looks like the custom has very few sections, so that might not be as useful as it could be), or it can mean using a tab (if you don't have one for the song, you can export the tab using the Toolkit).

 

As for how long it takes to get "good" at a song (perhaps just in Rocksmith), it depends on how the song compares with my skill level. If it's well below that, then I can feel pretty confident about doing a recording after only one or two times through. For songs that are at or above my skill level, it can take much longer.

 

Last week we played "Domination" by Symphony X in the Championship, and this was a song that I'd practiced for maybe 2 months (not exclusively, of course) beforehand. At the end of the week I was able to hit ~98% in Rocksmith (most of my misses in the fast hammer-ons and tapping section) and recorded this playthrough out of Rocksmith (which you should hear as, well, pretty damn sloppy. Here's that audio with some post-processing plus the original song audio. It makes it sound a little better, but there should still be many points where I stand out in a bad way.).

 

So, yeah, it can take quite a while depending on the song. There are some songs where I'd have to learn advanced techniques, or apply the techniques I already know at a higher level, that would take even longer to get to that level of mastery, and that's still a long way from perfecting the song.

 

 

As for playing octaves with the pinky, there have been some Maiden songs where I switched between pinky and ring finger when fingering octaves (or fifths) depending on the fretboard position. I think it might have been "Don't Look to the Eyes of a Stranger" that had this long section of fifths that changed the index finger position between the 2nd and 12th fret, and I switched to pinky at the lower frets for comfort and to avoid tiring out the finger.

 

Also, for the solo (I'm guessing you're talking about 3:50-4:07 in the video in particular?), I might suggest just trying to hammer on to the second note on the G string. It won't be entirely authentic, but it will be much easier to play. The other thing that might help is to get more comfortable with raking, if you're not already using that. Or even a 3-finger plucking technique, though that's a lot to develop.

[eezstreet]

Hey all. :)

 

It's definitely likely that I need a new bass anyway, as the sound is really muddy even with new strings. I had to loosen the pickup twice now for Rocksmith to register the sound properly. It's one of these El Cheapo Davison guitars that I bought for like $80. It's not bad for learning, but I think I need something that sounds, looks and feels nicer, at the very least for playing around other people. I've checked out a few at a local store and they were all quite small as I remember compared to the one I have now. But currently, playing a song like Afraid to Shoot Strangers or Fear of the Dark are quite painful for me, even with index finger and pinky.

 

I think I will get some flak for this, but I have only been doing two-finger plucking. I read that this is what Steve Harris does as well.

 

Is there a way to pipe the audio of what I'm playing in Rocksmith to a recording? I find it's easier to get into rhythm when I'm playing. I have played with the song audio all the way down and with the audio on, and my tests mostly gave better accuracy when the audio on.

I had this hairbrained scheme the other day to replace the original bass of the recordings with me playing and see how they compare. Since all of the old Maiden songs were recorded with the bass on the right (I believe) channel, it should be possible. When you listen to The Clairvoyant at least, you can hear quite a few buzzes and mistakes. :)

[albatross213]

 

I think I will get some flak for this, but I have only been doing two-finger plucking. I read that this is what Steve Harris does as well.

 

Is there a way to pipe the audio of what I'm playing in Rocksmith to a recording? I find it's easier to get into rhythm when I'm playing. I have played with the song audio all the way down and with the audio on, and my tests mostly gave better accuracy when the audio on.

I had this hairbrained scheme the other day to replace the original bass of the recordings with me playing and see how they compare. Since all of the old Maiden songs were recorded with the bass on the right (I believe) channel, it should be possible. When you listen to The Clairvoyant at least, you can hear quite a few buzzes and mistakes. :)

1) The things that I mentioned were just suggestions to make it easier to play - I'm not saying it's how Steve Harris played them, but many people wouldn't notice the difference unless you pointed it out to them. Anyway, 'arry definitely plays with two fingers, but a lot of the things he does can be quite hard to emulate with two fingers. He also has a lot of unusual right-hand technique that goes into his sound, if you're going for perfect emulation. (For the record, I also play pretty much solely with two fingers, though I'm trying to slowly pick up 3-finger technique for when it would be useful, whether it's just awkward plucking patterns or speed. Don't know why you'd think you'd get flak for it).

 

2) For recording the audio directly from Rocksmith, I'm not sure what the best way would be. It's not too hard to record video with that audio included (though I forget the exact steps to get around audio exclusivity and such), then with the appropriate software (or by uploading to youtube then doing a youtube rip) you can extract the audio with the video. I didn't do that in my case since I think Rocksmith tends to make me sound better than I actually am.

[firekorn]

Master mode (in score attack) is a good way to try if you really know the song or just sight read the chart.

 

Then Iron Maiden might not be the best to start with as it is really complicated, pretty sure you can find something easier to fool around with and to boost your confidence.

 

RS helps you keep the rhythm because you have the drummer "behind you" which is fundamental and you can't record what you play without the song playing along. If you want you can always try multitrack cdlc which allow you to not have the original bass recording but all the other part of the song so you still have the drum back up but you are the only bass in the audio.

 

Session mode can also be a good thing to try if you feel like improvising a bit.

[deansmayhem]

I think your problem is more a lack of confidence then it is with your ability. You kicked some ass there, that's some good playing.

[eezstreet]

Thank you. :) I have been recently learning how to play Transylvania. Currently I'm up to 91% accuracy but need to get a bit better. Found that there's an easier way to handle the first two "verses" than what the current custom has.

[Saito]

As with anything even if you're extremely talented 90% of your ability goes in applying what you know. Try to play along to tracks from Youtube. Youtube is also an excellent source for learning more about your instrument and how to play it.

 

A few tips:

 

*) Practice your rhythm, Rocksmith has a build in metronome in session mode. But there are also plenty of good, free software solutions. I personally use the free metronome from TempoPerfect: http://www.nch.com.au/metronome/

 

I'm well aware practicing with a metronome sounds boring and well it is. A bass player is not just an extension of the drummer and rhythm guitar, you're a key component to any band and your timing and rhythm is the lifeblood of the band.

 

This will most likely not come easily but even if you just practice 5 or 10 minutes before starting up Rocksmith you will see some major improvements and it doubles as a warm-up for your playing. :)

 

*) Once you feel comfortable with a song in Rocksmith try and play along to it on Youtube or from your music collection. I also found that listing to the original song before playing it in Rocksmith helps me a lot, it gives me the right feel and timing of the real thing.

 

*) Play through an real amp! If all possible without headphones. As you might have noticed that while the Rocksmith audio recognition system is competent enough for its purpose it's far from perfect. Rocksmith will often recognize a badly fretted note as correct or in fast passages I've noticed it will even count an entire fret as correctly.

 

*) Music theory is one of the most dreaded topics to any musician that has never really touched it. But I highly recommend you at least learn the very basics.

 

Youtube some tutorials on how the Major scale works and find one that explains it in a way that makes sense to you. It's perfectly fine if you don't fully understand it on the first video, just let it sit there and come back to it again in a week or so. I personally found that listing to the explanation of several different people greatly helped me to get to grip with the concepts, the might just bring the concept in a slight different way that just clicks for you.

 

*) Record yourself playing and listen back to it! This is so important and often overlooked it will allow you to fine tune your playing. The most practical way to go about this is through an audio interface. I'm aware this is another investment and its not something you have to buy right away but would make a good investment.

 

I personally started with the Steinberg UR22 which is a small audio interface with two interfaces for guitar or microphones. It's capable of recording at 24-bit/192 and has the advantage that it comes with a free copy of the DAW software Cubase. Using the interface instead of your on-board audio card will also greatly improve the quality of the audio.

 

*) A few more practical things.

 

1) If you haven't done so yet bring your bass to an guitar shop and have them set it up properly. Even if you just bought it chances are it traveled a great distance and wood is very sensitive to changes in humidity and it will affect the tone, having it set up correctly is part of owning an instrument. Most shops will let you watch the process and will explain it to you so you might do the adjustments yourself in the future but for the first time have a professional do it.

 

2) Replace your strings regularly. A good average is 3 to 4 months but depending on the sound you're going for you may want to replace them more or less often. New bass strings will sound brighter and if that is the sound you're going for every 2 to 3 months. Strings that have been used longer will sound duller and if that is the sound you're going for you can keep them on for longer.

 

If you're ever in the situation that your band is in a recording studio, unless the duller tone is part of your sound you should replace the strings the day before.

 

Always have at least one spare of strings on hand.

 

3) Know how your instrument works, know the parts that make up the instrument and know the basics of what they do and how. Know what each knob on your instrument does and remember where set them on so that you can set them back if it changes for some reason.

 

Something my dad once told me a long time ago and has stuck with me to this day:

Normal men know nothing of love. If you want to know of love, look at a musicians fingers as he makes his music. A musician knows.

 

Well, this turned out far longer than I had planned sorry for the tl;dr and I hope you find it at least a little bit useful :)

[eezstreet]

This is all really helpful information. I have an amp, but it makes my bass sound like an electric guitar more than the smooth, jazzy sound of what I hear with other players. Part of this I suspect is the actual hardware itself. What is a good set of amps to look into? I wouldn't know the first thing about them. Another thing I suspect is the strings. My action is quite low and I need some heavy gauge strings.

[hellohello]

The more years you have being playing,the more easier you learn a song ,the less time you have being playing the harder it gets.

Try more easier songs instead of truggling with sofisticated stuff.Common problem with newbies is that they want to play songs right away from pro musicians,the best of the world most times, that have many ,many years of playing.That's pretty silly.

[DevStereo]

@@hellohello Yeah i agree.. I'm a silly newbie and like my member title say a Expert Guitarist [emoji50] [emoji106] .

I started obviously with the avaible Songs from Rocksmith and then moved to some CDLC's and always set the difficutly to 100% and then it droped down and i pushed it up over and over again.

[TomSawyer2112]

To learn a song, you have to know  its structure, and understand the variations in same substructures.

If the custom has bad section, I recommend you to import it back in EOF, and make the sections right.

(bass sections may differ sometimes from lead guitar sections, kicking in a beat/bar early or later)

 

Then repeat some sections (about 1 minute long) for three days, until the notes travel from short-term memory to long-term memory, and muscle memory (nerve system). This automation process guarantees that memorizing notes is stabilized. I doubt it can be done faster, unless you are experienced or advanced.

 

On this you can add more sections.

 

Looking at your fretboard instead of the screen helps to stabilize the visual memory, which later is recalled by your imagination even without looking at the guitar. After learning the notes, play the sections slowly without looking at the screen, until you get 0 errors, then speed up. This way feeling of the rhythm is improved. Looking at the screen is taking you by the hand to respect the rhythm, and that's why the ability to play away from RS is lost.

 

It's not how fast you learn a song, but how long you will remember it.

So yes it will take about a week to learn a song in a way that you'll be able to play it again even after several weeks not playing it.

 

I'm using this way, learning .i.e three songs in parallel, within a week, without ever losing it.

[lilstrats]

All great advice here...also, 8 months is not that long (you're still getting comfortable) ...I find if I focus on one song rather than jumping all over the place with a bunch of songs I can get it down, (I also slowww the riffs down on RR and accelerate but do it at the same speed at 3 times to really learn the riff -- I also have to keep doing this a lot) At first when I started it took me a long time to get basics down. Now I can play a song a few times and get the pattern (what riffs go where) , the rhythm, the notes a lot quicker. It's just practice I think, give it more time , really. I like what everyone said about trying songs OUTSIDE of rocksmith, cuz that helps build confidence. Also, next time, say yes to jamming with your friends...you will learn as you go , most people are still learning too, this can be a very effective way to build confidence and help you learn your instrument...

And, I play guitar, have a small neck and small hands, I use index and pinky on powerchords sometimes, whatever works man go with it, I don't think it's a bad habit as long as it's not slowing you down. (I did have a friend say 'play guitar like you have three fingers -- no pinky' so you can try consciously making an effort when you slow down to use the index and ring finger...use those muscles!) Good luck!

Oh yeah, I really like what Tomsawyer said,...it's how long you remember it. I played Losing my Religion (My first song that I learned in entirety) about 50 times. I could play along with the song outside of Rocksmith and even made a dorky video for my friends to say, hey i can play this! But do I remember it now? nope. I forgot the song, well most of it...So did I learn the song? nope. I can play a riff or two from it sure, but I didn't 'learn' it , I can't sit there with a guitar in front of a campfire and play it. Practice the song often so it stays in your head and your hands remember where to go ^_^.