Can Tabs Cause CDLC to Crash?

[AtreidesGhola]

So, I've been working on making Don't Take Me Alive, by Steely Dan.

 

Every time I've generated a version of the song, it crashes right after tuning.  I've redone the song several different times with different source mp3's, redone Wwise, etc.

 

In my frustration, I generated a version of the song using a tab for another song that I had made in Guitar Pro...the tab I was originally using I had found on Ultimate Guitar Tabs.  Wen I loaded up the version with the bogus tab chart, the song started fine (though of course with the wrong tab).

 

What could be causing the song to crash the game to the desktop vis a vis the tab I was using?  I can go ahead and tab out the song myself from the sheet music, but that will be extremely time consuming.  Any suggestions?

 

Thanks in advance

 

[cozy1]

Lots of things can cause CDLC crashes. Lookie here, here and elsewhere.  Without knowing a lot more detail about your problem, it  could be a Wem audio issue.  Here's how you can check it.  Take your Wem audio files and convert them with the toolkit to Ogg format (tab menu item "OGG" and second browse button) and try to listen to the "*_fixed.ogg" files with your audio player.  Can you hear audio, if Yes then the Wem are good and you have some other problem like a bad XML file.  If No, then redo the Wem. 

 

The latest version of the toolkit will automatically make working Wem files for you from your Wav or Ogg files if you have Wwise 2013.2.2.4828 installed.  Just use tab menu item "Creator" and pick your Wav or Ogg audio file.  The new version of the toolkit will also make the "*_preview.wem" file for you.

 

PM me if you are still having trouble.

[MadMaxx]

sometimes tech notes can make trouble, if tech notes are imported just make a backup of the .eof file and delete all tech notes from the .eof file (ctrl+a) that you want to test. If it works in the game its some tech notes causing the issue.

[PC Plum]

I was going to suggest your sections.  Maybe the other tab loaded up because you did it quick and did not make sections.

 

What I would suggest is going into EoF and erasing all sections/phrases.  Remember to re-save the project.

 

Now, also, when you re-generate it is really important to give the arrangements new arrangement numbers.  The game remembers arrangment numbers, so if you change certain things in customs, even though you fixed the issue it will still crash.

 

To do this, when in toolkit remove ALL arrangements (yes all, including the lyrics), change the DLCName (the field that does not allow spaces), then re-add the arrangments.

 

This makes the game think its a completely new song, the play count will reset to 0.

 

 

 

Basically, try the song with no sections.  If it works then just add them back in carefully. 

[AtreidesGhola]

@@MadMaxx Thanks, I'll give that a shot, too.

 

@PC Plum I actually never imported the sections from the tab, and made my own for the song.  It's pretty complex, and I wanted folks to be able to isolate all the little fills and riffs.  I did try the song with no sections, and it still crashes.  

 

Normally, I tab out all of these either from the sheet music or by ear.  This one I chose to use an already done tab for because it was just such an excellent job.

 

If anyone is interested, here's the tab I used:

 

http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/s/steely_dan/dont_take_me_alive_guitar_pro.htm

[PC Plum]

But when you tried it with no sections, did you make fresh arrangement numbers?

 

Like I say, once a song crashes it always crashes until you give all arrangements new numbers.  You do this by "pulling" them into the toolkit again.

[AtreidesGhola]

Okay, well...I've done all of this now and it's still crashing.

 

I have no idea what the problem might be; it must have something to do with the tab file that I'm bringing in from GP6, because if I import any other tab, the song starts up just fine.

 

Thanks for the help...If you think of anything else to try, I'd be grateful.

 

Until then, looks like I'm going to have generate a tab by hand for this monstrous song.  So many complex bends.

[PC Plum]

Its the sections man.  I always fix it, eventually, by resetting sections, tone changes and/or arrangement numbers, or removing lyrics.

 

Whatever it is, its not the tabs...  :D

 

 

Try Cozy's .wem check too, I would.

[AtreidesGhola]

Cozy said he'd give building it a go later tonight...he thought it might be that there are more bends than the program can handle.  

 

I'm getting tired of fucking around with it at the moment.  I might shelve it for awhile and do more Jackson Browne.

[AtreidesGhola]

Started working with it again today, took out the tech notes...which I was absolutely sure I had done...and off the song went!

Thanks for all the input and help.  It'll be published real soon!

[raynebc]

If you get bored, it may be worth removing different groups of tech notes to see if you can track down which ones cause the game to crash. Then the toolkit, EOF, etc. can be updated to try to avoid the problem.

[PC Plum]

Could it be because 2 or more tech notes were snapped together, or just close enugh to cause problems?

 

Might also be a combination of tech notes lying on notes which should not have tech.

[AtreidesGhola]

Here's what Cozy1 had to say about it when he took a closer look.  

 

Just confirmed that the lock up is definitely caused by bad (multiple) BendValues on same note.  When I manually removed multiple BendValues in Xml the song plays fine.  Also I am seeing BendValues in the Xml associated with Chords which I didn't even know was possible.

 

Maybe you could share with raynebc your experience.  Like I said, I can not tell if it is GPA or EOF issue without more information.

 

If something can be done to avoid this in the future, I'll gladly give troubleshooting it a shot.

[raynebc]

Could it be because 2 or more tech notes were snapped together, or just close enugh to cause problems?

 

Might also be a combination of tech notes lying on notes which should not have tech.

I'd have to test it out to be certain, but I believe if 2 snapped together, they would behave as if they were a single tech note/chord. If they were too close to each other, it's possible Rocksmith wouldn't handle it properly. If a tech note isn't on any note, it should be ignored during Rocksmith export.

 

Here's what Cozy1 had to say about it when he took a closer look.

 

Just confirmed that the lock up is definitely caused by bad (multiple) BendValues on same note. When I manually removed multiple BendValues in Xml the song plays fine. Also I am seeing BendValues in the Xml associated with Chords which I didn't even know was possible.

 

Maybe you could share with raynebc your experience. Like I said, I can not tell if it is GPA or EOF issue without more information.

 

If something can be done to avoid this in the future, I'll gladly give troubleshooting it a shot.

This is interesting, I thought notes were supposed to be able to have multiple bend points? I also was under the impression that the game supports chord bends. I suppose at this point I need to know in what ways bendValue tags aren't allowed to be used in Rocksmith.

[PC Plum]

What Cozy is saying makes sense to me, and in a way it's what I was on about.

 

The main problems I encounter with tech notes are lots of them squashed together at the start of the bend and tech notes which affect the succeeding note (which may or may not need tech).

 

I've done a couple of customs recently with highly complex bends (like up/down/up/down/up kind of bends) and on GP import this can result in maybe 10-20 tech notes being squashed together at the start of the bend.  Maybe there's just a limit to how many the game can handle, and AtreidesGhola's song breached that limit.

 

Also, EoF now tries to import tech notes at the end of complex bends (where appropriate).  These can actually land on the head of the succeeding note (possibly a chord that is not defined as a bend).  It's also possible that a bend tech <> 0 was on the head of the chord, and I've never seen the game do a pre-bend chord.

 

One of the checks I use to scan for dodgy techs is when I re-snap before saving.  When I try to snap the tech notes and it gives me the warning about 2 being too close and will be snapped together, EoF takes me to the first offending note.  10/10 there will be 2 techs on top of each other on the head of a note, with one of the tech being the correct tech and the other comes from the end of the preceeding note.

 

 

I'm not trying to have a moan, honest :D

 

Just giving my experiences so maybe you can understand better.  I'm not surprised at what Cozy is finding tbh.

[AtreidesGhola]

The main problems I encounter with tech notes are lots of them squashed together at the start of the bend and tech notes which affect the succeeding note (which may or may not need tech).

 

I've done a couple of customs recently with highly complex bends (like up/down/up/down/up kind of bends) and on GP import this can result in maybe 10-20 tech notes being squashed together at the start of the bend.  Maybe there's just a limit to how many the game can handle, and AtreidesGhola's song breached that limit.

 

Also, EoF now tries to import tech notes at the end of complex bends (where appropriate).  These can actually land on the head of the succeeding note (possibly a chord that is not defined as a bend).  It's also possible that a bend tech <> 0 was on the head of the chord, and I've never seen the game do a pre-bend chord.

So, when you look at this song before the tech notes are taken out, this is exactly what you get in the beginning solo, and throughout the rest of the song, because of the highly complex bends.  

 

I'm going over Berneer's tutorial on tech notes; I'd like to get those complex bends back into the song.

[PC Plum]

There is definitely some "manual labour" involved in creating nice looking solos/complex bends.  I gotten into a workflow pattern now that I have done so many.  I always drag the tech notes about to separate them all and see what I have, put the ones I need into place on the note/sustain tail and erase the surplus.

 

Sometimes I just erase all the tech notes and create my own, it really depends in the individual situation I'm in.

 

If I remember tonight (when I'm on my own pc), I'll upload an example pic or two.

 

Berneer's tutorial is top drawer stuff and should give you a good head start though.

 

An example of multiple imported tech notes that have not been manually sorted in EoF but does work in game can be found in icachoo's Shine On You Crazy Diamond custom, with (bascially) vertical faces on the bend graphics.

 

Not slating the custom, just if you want to see what I'm on about you can have a quick shot of that.

 

If you watch the play vid of my Sultans of Swing custom you can see a examples of when the techs on complex bends have been sorted out (although the player uses the upside down tab view and it looks weird).

 

 

Making gorgeous charts is quite addictive, lets the artistic designer side of you come out a bit.  Well worth putting some effort into learning :D

[cozy1]

@PcPlum hit it.  "The main problems I encounter with tech notes are lots of them squashed together at the start of the bend and tech notes which affect the succeeding note (which may or may not need tech)." 

 

If you take a look at the Song2014 Xml from @AtreidesGhola  many of the BendValues have the same start time as the note being bent and have end times that are equal to the next note.  I don't know if this is acceptable or not, just that I have not seen it before.  I have not tried removing the overlap of time but this is what I suspect is causing the freeze. 

 

My comment about bent chords is that I have not seen them before and I really am raising a question about whether it is acceptable.  Again I see the same issue in the Xml where bent chords are starting and ending in overlapping (equal) times.  Maybe change the BendValues start times by a +0.001  and stop times by -0.001 in EOF Xml generation and the problem could go away. 

[firekorn]

Bend chord is perfectly possible and usable in RS2014 since even official DLC can sometimes uses some (https://youtu.be/NqzWU4za7qk soundgarden DLC with bend chord)

 

The problem is difficult to manage since GP bend definition is really weird (to say the least) and even complex bend authoring in GP5 or GP6 can sometimes be hard to do correctly. I haven't encounter those error but i've always get rid of many tech bend to keep the minimal amount that i need before testing a CDLC anyway.

[AtreidesGhola]

I actually didn't think much about the complexity of the bends before this.  

 

As I've said, I generally make my own gpx tabs, convert them to gp5, and use those, and I've put in complex bends before (Don't Talk to Strangers was one of the first).  I never gave it too much thought since they transferred without a problem previously.  There are just so many on the same notes in this song that I finally ran into an existing problem without realizing it even existed in the first place.

 

I'm going to try my hand at cleaning these up this weekend to see how it goes.  Thanks everyone for all the help and advice.

[Aludog]

I've never been satisfied by the way bend tech notes get imported into EoF, so I always erase them and place new ones manually. I honestly think that it's absolutely necessary to put in that extra work even if it can be tiresome with songs that feature lots of them. Guitar solos in general are always a lot of work because you need to fine tune exact note placements, slides, bends, ho/po's, etc. Making yourself familiar with tech notes is important if you want to give your custom the necessary touch to get it from good to great. :)

[PC Plum]

"Existing problem" is a bit of a harsh description.  Don't want this to sound like an EoF bashing session :D

 

Maybe I only started getting techs on top of one another when I changed the min distance to 0ms, trying to eradicate the short tails you get on manually inputted gems?  I know there's a different setting required but I think I changed min distance to 0ms then never changed it back.

[raynebc]

The main problems I encounter with tech notes are lots of them squashed together at the start of the bend and tech notes which affect the succeeding note (which may or may not need tech).

 

I've done a couple of customs recently with highly complex bends (like up/down/up/down/up kind of bends) and on GP import this can result in maybe 10-20 tech notes being squashed together at the start of the bend.

If you have any GP files that import this way, please send one to me.

 

I've never been satisfied by the way bend tech notes get imported into EoF

EOF doesn't second guess the intentions of the GP file, it imports them as they are authored.

[PC Plum]

 

If you have any GP files that import this way, please send one to me.

 

 

Well this one I'm working on just now

 

https://www.sendspace.com/file/b1ihfd

 

 

track 2 lead, as soon as tech notes come (bar 5 onto bar 6) you can see what I mean.  The more complex the bend, the more notes get squashed at the start.

 

To see an example of tech going onto the next note check out bar 30.  I am now thinking it's cause I have options set to 0ms min note distance, so see what you think of that.

 

 

 

 

Thanks man :D

 

 

 

 

P.S. if you need a better example I'll come across one soon enough.  Even bends that go 0, 2, 0, 3, 2, 1, 0 and stuff all get squashed to the start.  In the example I gave the actual audio does have a quick bend, but the GP authoring would suggest a sustained bend position

[raynebc]

I took a look at it, but EOF is importing it correctly (verbatim as authored in the GP file). The tech notes near the beginning of the following note are actually still on the previous note's tail, although you may have to zoom in quite a bit to see this. I'm not sure if there's going to be a perfect solution, EOF either imports the file as-is or we'd have to come up with some kind of limitations about what can and can't be accepted for bend tech notes (ie. bend points must be a minimum of #ms apart).

 

Edit: I think I can probably have it discard the last bend point of a bend if it was the same height as the previous point. This kind of point should have no effect on the bend itself, but just marks the end of the bend's definition in the GP file.