Rocksmith 2014 Championship Week 66

[MilkmanDan]

 

I used to have a song with that in mind(Mr.Big-addicted to that rush) but the RR is missing, so no dice.

If you have a chance, check that song out, btw, thats the bass in the beginning

Ever since RATM I've actually been trying to request two for any lead and two for MC Bass to keep the difficulty up

 

 

No RR is pretty easy to fix.  Can even be done automagically with DDC/DD Remover, although that route is generally less smart about where the real section breaks are than doing it by hand.

 

I'll check out the song -- thanks for the suggestion!

[Mortalo]

Championship was made so we would get some fun playing various songs. Since I got back to MC bass, I don't think that I spent some time trying to achieve better scores there, still I played some other class songs to great extent. Classes and leveling up was made so the Championship could be fair. If you get good enough you should try higher challenge, not only so participants could compete with people of their level but also for you to try to push yourself and become better.

I, personally, have great regard to all 100% scores. I did it few times and I know how hard and stressful it is (some MC bass guys tries to make it look trivial but it's not), so I'm against all this level up on 100%. Still RC is done for you, so every idea is taken into consideration, and if arguments are too good, we won't be able to argue.

I love @@MilkmanDan's idea of rating songs more harshly, 'cause if song, selected for your class, is from level below, you don't have to level up (though I won't stop you if you want to).

[Rodman]

I think the adv->mc bass leveling is a very special border, i´m far off in lead and rhy guitar so i can´t really tell there, but i think there its more linear.

 

I myself couple of times discontinued to push my scores there because i feared i would otherwise level up - i do not belong into bass mc and esp. as it is my secondary instrument it would be of limited fun to have to participate there (atm) and leveling down is hard and takes time.

I think on that special border either

- a 100 - @@Mortalo agreed, doesnt come from the clouds and maximum respect to every single one achieved

or

- an active vote from the player on achieved 99.5 meaning - yes, ready for mc

would be good options.

 

I recall @Noony leveling down volontarily being leveled up instantly again, though i dont remember if that was after the no forced level-ups on lower diff rule....

[Mortalo]

I think that only me and @Noony decided to use "Pour Some Sugar on Me rule" (leveled to MC by really easy song), and yes we leveled up quite quickly due to very good scores (it was after 99.5% x 1 or 98% x 3 for bass was declared). It's all about how fair it can be. Special rule for Advanced bass? Comment.

[Rodman]

Quite good progress on int lead - from 71 to 86 % after decidin to go for that one.... i think i´m gonna get over my pers goal of 90% ...

 

Had connection errors - so the valid 86 is on my hd, meanwhile ....

 

http://i57.tinypic.com/nx04sx.jpg

[then3verend]

@@Rodman

as far as lead goes, going from advanced to McCain was like going from high school sports to major leagues.

 

its really a whole nother level, and it really feels like youre fighting for a legend.

 

with that in mind, what about a certain number of spots for MC bass? That way people that want in have to fight for it, and the people that are in have to fight to keep their spot

[CorgiBootyy]

@@Mortalo I believe Carl Barker is an advanced song, but not a Master song. I believe I rated it at 8 for rhythm and lead and at 7 for bass. And if it wasn't for the intro on lead, it would be down to a 7 for sure. I haven't tried Mother May I, so I don't know where that relates.

But for the lead, the intro is fast and tricky to learn. The rest of the song is mostly minor third/second intervals on the B and E strings with some jazzy dead notes and some semi-fast fills and movement that may take a stop or two in RR.

The rhythm has some more lead-like parts for a rhythm position and offers some faster sections for rhythm with some fast power/octave chord changes in the chorus. Oh also that tricky 766 harmonic I cant hit >.<

[lordlk]

Here are the sunday first runs :P

 

http://i61.tinypic.com/2nb62c9.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/adf14n.jpg

And of course I couldn't left Pink Floyd out:

 

http://i62.tinypic.com/11qtv1s.jpg

 

http://i62.tinypic.com/8x7uyw.jpg

Have a nice week!

[Mortalo]

If other MC/Advanced participants think that Carl Barker lead is not MC-level, I'll select additional MC lead song (only MC lead, Barker will stay as Adv/MC) from the ones that were already played in the past.

(though I would like more Advanced participants opinion)

[NoonyDeloony]

@@then3verend that's a great idea. MC is definitely NOT my category but on the odd occasion I can play a MC selection really well, it's VERY rare, but when it happens it's by no means a fluke. I love to compete but I know my limitations and know why styles of play I'm semi-competent in. Being able to compete for a spot in MC even if it is only for a brief stay until a new contender makes it their place would at least give a little bit of a satisfying buzz before going back to Adv.

 

I was told the last time we discussed this, that my being levelled down to Adv would be unfair on the other adv players because I'd have apparently won every week but again I'm finding I'm not scoring anywhere at all now, I voluntarily said I'd suck up the losing in MC and I really wish I hadn't . That's really quite irritating, especially as there are MC bassists like Blaze and Then3ver who by all means are the epitome of MC... Folk like me are just not in that league. I can't help but think it's a bit embarrassing for the hardcore players with years of well developed skill and training under their belts to be winning because some of their competitors still have training wheels on.

 

This dilemma could occur at any stage of transition too. I imagine if I do get a 6string in the future I'll think a hell of a lot more about submitting a winning score before I'm ready to progress to the next level.

 

I'll shush now... Totally @@MilkmanDan'd the shit out of that post ;)

[Latsch]

Great songs this week, especially Pink Floyd and Coheed & Cambria one, love these two, partly because im a sucker for progressive rock music ;P 

There definetly has to be Welcome Home and Ten Speeds of Gods Blood/No World For Tomorrow in the Song selection list as i think about it, really fun to play for lead guitar guys, while Mother May I is on the easier side of their songs.

 

Mother May I Lead (Already had that in my song list... and like 10 other Coheed Songs )

I'll try to get this one to a high 95%+ MM run 

 

I only had one run on the Dance Gavin Dance song, where i scored 91%, but didn't took a screenshot.

Dont really liked the song, but thats the genre in my part. Dont really like Hardcore/screaming stuff too much.

I do, as all the other MC guys, think that its too easy for a normal MC song.

 

Well, back to studying.

 

Cheers! And as always have a great week!

[then3verend]

I wasn't going to say anything about lead MC, but that's the first time I've broken 90% on a sight read for MC

So yeah, I'm obviously in favor of changing it

[franfit]

Sorry to say, but I will have to miss out on the fun this week. to much travel work and not enough fun and play time.

 

will pick it up again next week.

 

have fun everyone B)

[MonstaS4]

Geez, who picked this song!..... :ph34r:

 

Haven't played it in a while. Lot faster than i remember it. Anyhow, after a little RR and a 85% speed runthrough first, i got this at full speed:

 

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/niil42ileke5fe4/2015-01-26_00001.jpg?dl=0

 

And Bass

 

http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/epdg5w94kdz6dmo/2015-01-25_00001.jpg?dl=0

[fripponomic]

start with the well known and easy

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150126/424cjmjo.jpg

 

could be better

http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150126/jdiyzlme.jpg

[MilkmanDan]

@@Rodman

as far as lead goes, going from advanced to McCain was like going from high school sports to major leagues.

 

its really a whole nother level, and it really feels like youre fighting for a legend.

 

with that in mind, what about a certain number of spots for MC bass? That way people that want in have to fight for it, and the people that are in have to fight to keep their spot

I'm kinda mixed on the idea of limiting the number of MC bass spots...  Some aspects would be good but some feel kinda off also.

 

Just by looking at the leaderboard from last week:

Player                       Acc%  Strk   Score
Blazikiller                 100.00 1301 2,469,231
then3verend                 100.00 1301 2,467,211
w4rl3x                      100.00 1301 1,848,718
frippchen                   100.00 1301 1,847,720
MilkmanDan                   99.92 1231
Kaijin                       99.07 306
genobadass                   98.15 349
Mortalo                      98.00 288
Joey                         96.23 275
NoonyDeloony                 93.77 239

Blazikiller and then3verend are the elites with MM scores.  w4rl3x and frippchen both hit 100% with very solid scores on hard.  Kaijin and I both hit 99%+, genobadass and Mortalo with 98%+, and Joey and Noony both with solid accuracies in the mid 90s.

 

So just by looking at the scores of that single week, one could get a pretty good grip on where to set the bar depending on how many spots we wanted to set for MC Bass.  2 seems too small, but there is a clear line in the chart at that point because of the difference between Master Mode and Hard scoring.  If you set it at 3 spots, w4rl3x and frippchen would be under lots of pressure to fight for the best score with 100% accuracy on hard, and then one of the two would get screwed.  Bump up to 4 spots, and the pressure shifts to me to try to pull out a 100% and beat one of those guys scores.

 

I think I played the song somewhere around 6 times during the week, and one of the first times when I missed ONE note and got the 99.9 was my best.  I think with enough tries I could have lucked into a 100% run, but I don't have any confidence that my timing/score would have beat the guys above me even then.  And I wouldn't really have enjoyed it.

 

...And with more spots (5+), the pressure just keeps moving down the list to either A) try to avoid being "relegated" to Advanced, or B ) try NOT to get into the top spots so that one could go back to Advanced where they want to be anyway.  I don't think that is really an ideal solution.

 

A small number of MC spots will make the line feel arbitrary...  I think that ranking based on score in the event of a tie (like a tie at 100%) is the best method available, but it isn't great because I don't really 100% trust Rocksmith's scoring system given potential differences in input lag/latency, random hiccups in system performance, etc. etc.  A small number of spots puts a lot of faith in that scoring system, which I think is ... not great.

 

A bigger number of spots limits the positive effects of the idea -- the pressure to really push for your best isn't on the elites like Blazi and never-never, who pretty much know that they are going to make the cut.  Instead, it goes down to the first tier of also-rans...  Since I'm sorta in that group, I'll just say that I don't think that pressure would motivate me -- rather the opposite.  I play/participate here for fun, that sounds a bit too much like work.

 

 

I dunno.  Maybe I'm missing the nuances of how it would work, but I think that I personally would prefer some other system of solving the Advanced -> MC transition issue.  I just don't know what.

[MilkmanDan]

How about this:

 

Advanced to MC (or back) is a player-initiated transition.  In order to move from Advanced to MC, you have to:

1) meet the current level-up requirements

AND

2) say that you *want* to be leveled up.

 

There is some potential for an MC-level player to just stick in Advanced because they can dominate, which would probably require there to be some option to force a level-up to MC.  Maybe a vote conducted by PM to all the other active Advanced participants, or something.  BUT, I don't see that being required often if ever, because we're a good community and it would be a pretty dick move to actually force it to come to that.

 

Moving down from MC to Advanced would be handled by the player saying they wanted out, and maybe another PM vote by participants in Advanced.  OR via the current rules of getting less than x% (is is 70%?) or just not participating for 3 (I think it is 3?) weeks in a row, which would not require a vote.  That second option might again have potential for abuse, but I don't see it happening often.  Still, the same option to force a level-up could be used in those cases if they ever happened also.

 

 

And if anything was changed like this again, current MC players should be allowed a one-time mulligan to drop to Advanced if they want, like last time (which seemingly didn't go far enough).  I would *consider* dropping down myself, but I think I'd stay in MC.  I can usually get a respectable 3rd or 4th, and I don't feel completely out of my depth with the songs chosen for MC (I'm not in the same league as top the MC guys, but I'm usually comfortable with the challenge level of the songs).

 

Hey, that was a short post for me!

[then3verend]

 

@@Rodman

as far as lead goes, going from advanced to McCain was like going from high school sports to major leagues.

 

its really a whole nother level, and it really feels like youre fighting for a legend.

 

with that in mind, what about a certain number of spots for MC bass? That way people that want in have to fight for it, and the people that are in have to fight to keep their spot

I'm kinda mixed on the idea of limiting the number of MC bass spots...  Some aspects would be good but some feel kinda off also.

 

Just by looking at the leaderboard from last week:

Player                       Acc%  Strk   Score
Blazikiller                 100.00 1301 2,469,231
then3verend                 100.00 1301 2,467,211
w4rl3x                      100.00 1301 1,848,718
frippchen                   100.00 1301 1,847,720
MilkmanDan                   99.92 1231
Kaijin                       99.07 306
genobadass                   98.15 349
Mortalo                      98.00 288
Joey                         96.23 275
NoonyDeloony                 93.77 239

Blazikiller and then3verend are the elites with MM scores.  w4rl3x and frippchen both hit 100% with very solid scores on hard.  Kaijin and I both hit 99%+, genobadass and Mortalo with 98%+, and Joey and Noony both with solid accuracies in the mid 90s.

 

So just by looking at the scores of that single week, one could get a pretty good grip on where to set the bar depending on how many spots we wanted to set for MC Bass.  2 seems too small, but there is a clear line in the chart at that point because of the difference between Master Mode and Hard scoring.  If you set it at 3 spots, w4rl3x and frippchen would be under lots of pressure to fight for the best score with 100% accuracy on hard, and then one of the two would get screwed.  Bump up to 4 spots, and the pressure shifts to me to try to pull out a 100% and beat one of those guys scores.

 

I think I played the song somewhere around 6 times during the week, and one of the first times when I missed ONE note and got the 99.9 was my best.  I think with enough tries I could have lucked into a 100% run, but I don't have any confidence that my timing/score would have beat the guys above me even then.  And I wouldn't really have enjoyed it.

 

...And with more spots (5+), the pressure just keeps moving down the list to either A) try to avoid being "relegated" to Advanced, or B ) try NOT to get into the top spots so that one could go back to Advanced where they want to be anyway.  I don't think that is really an ideal solution.

 

A small number of MC spots will make the line feel arbitrary...  I think that ranking based on score in the event of a tie (like a tie at 100%) is the best method available, but it isn't great because I don't really 100% trust Rocksmith's scoring system given potential differences in input lag/latency, random hiccups in system performance, etc. etc.  A small number of spots puts a lot of faith in that scoring system, which I think is ... not great.

 

A bigger number of spots limits the positive effects of the idea -- the pressure to really push for your best isn't on the elites like Blazi and never-never, who pretty much know that they are going to make the cut.  Instead, it goes down to the first tier of also-rans...  Since I'm sorta in that group, I'll just say that I don't think that pressure would motivate me -- rather the opposite.  I play/participate here for fun, that sounds a bit too much like work.

 

 

I dunno.  Maybe I'm missing the nuances of how it would work, but I think that I personally would prefer some other system of solving the Advanced -> MC transition issue.  I just don't know what.

 

I actually had 5/6 in mind, 4 for Rodman's Ranks, and one to two "wildcards" to be in MC for the next week, this could be the same for all the classes too, not just Bass.

 

As far as fears for it being detrimental, I threw this out there for two reasons, A: because a lot of people either don't or didn't want to be in MC for fears of being crushed by "the elites" and B: To increase the competitive nature of both Classes.

 

As far as losing fun out of it, I ask this question, is coming in third/fourth and not even having a chance to win more fun than fighting for first and/or a promotion on a regular basis?

 

 

[MilkmanDan]

 

I actually had 5/6 in mind, 4 for Rodman's Ranks, and one to two "wildcards" to be in MC for the next week, this could be the same for all the classes too, not just Bass.

 

As far as fears for it being detrimental, I threw this out there for two reasons, A: because a lot of people either don't or didn't want to be in MC for fears of being crushed by "the elites" and B: To increase the competitive nature of both Classes.

 

As far as losing fun out of it, I ask this question, is coming in third/fourth and not even having a chance to win more fun than fighting for first and/or a promotion on a regular basis?

(this is a long post even by my standards, skip ahead if you want)

 

I am not completely opposed to the idea, I was/am just a bit unclear on how it would all pan out.  I've been thinking it over some more, and I've got some thoughts.

 

So, lets say we settle on 6 MC slots.  From your description, I guess that 4 would be selected week-by-week based on the top 4 of the previous week's MC song results.  Whoever came in 5th and 6th in MC get "relegated" to Advanced for the following week (they can still play the MC song, but their results don't "count"), and #1 and 2 in Advanced get promoted for a shot at the big leagues?

 

My first thought is that a good aspect of that is that it really would enhance the competitive aspect of the "Championship".  It would make it feel much more like a Championship.  In spite of the fact that I tend to play for fun rather than for the competitive aspect here, I think that would be a good thing...  Although not everyone would agree, I think.

 

However, I do see potential problems, but maybe they could be mitigated.  Like you said, quite a few participants don't want to be in MC.  Players like that would actually be discouraged from doing well in Advanced, because if they do, they get bumped into MC for a week.

 

Maybe to help deal with that, we could say the promoted players still get valid scores in both Advanced and MC classes for the week they are promoted.  Ie., top 4 in MC scores are valid in MC only (they can play the Advanced song, but there score doesn't count in leaderboard terms, just like now).  If you are one of the players promoted from Advanced to MC, your scores for the week that you are promoted count in BOTH the Advanced and MC songs (assuming you play both).  If you manage to beat out one of the top 4, you would be locked in to MC for the next week, and the player you dethroned would have to get #1 or #2 in Advanced to have a shot at getting back in the firm MC list.

 

 

So, using last week's leaderboard again:

Blazikiller, then3verend, w4rl3x, and frippchen would be the locked-in MC Bass players this week.  Kaijin and genobadass had the top 2 Advanced Bass scores last week (although if the system was different like you suggest I'm sure there would have been more jockeying for score there).  So, they would be promoted to "probationary MC" this week, and their scores on BOTH Mother May I (adv) AND Carl Barker (MC) would count for leaderboard scores in their classes.

 

If they have no interest in MC, they can just opt out of playing that song entirely.  Their score for Advanced still counts, so if they get #1 or #2 there again, they would be "probationary MC" again, and could either opt out again or try it out if the song is more to their liking.

 

If they want to shoot for glory, they can play the MC song and try to get in the top 4, which would lock them in to MC for at least a week (and invalidate any score on the Advanced song for the week).

 

 

Is that pretty close to how you see it working, @@then3verend?  I think I'd be OK with that.  I wouldn't want to make things too complicated for Mortalo, so that should be considered.  And most important is what the advanced/MC players that would really be involved with any of these ideas think.  I'm kinda in that group, but I can see good points to either voluntary advancement to MC or your idea of limited MC slots (which could be applied to lead and rhythm also if desired).

[MilkmanDan]

Here's a more related to the task at hand post:  (MC Bass)

 

Which is good for the current lead...  I expect to hold it for a few solid minutes of glory!

 

...Maybe hours if everyone outside of Thailand time is sleeping.  :P

[fripponomic]

...Maybe hours if everyone outside of Thailand time is sleeping.  :P

Just sitting at my breakfast...

[MilkmanDan]

 

...Maybe hours if everyone outside of Thailand time is sleeping.  :P

Just sitting at my breakfast...

 

Minutes it is, then.  ;)

[w4rl3x]

Some bass:

 

http://imgur.com/GGuJe3R

[Mortalo]

MasterClass lead participants rejoice, here comes to new MC lead song (only lead, Carl Barker lead stays as Adv/MC, additional winner will be selected for this song), it's song we already played in week 19, it's:

 

Lead

MasterClass Guns N' Roses - Sweet Child O' Mine (Plum's Version)

 

This is @PC Plum's version, it can differ from 's one. I hope that this one is truly MC.

I'm sorry with all that Carl Barker thing.

 

PS. I did not wanted to replace DGD, not only 'cause I don't like to replace songs, but also because it's ok in 2 other paths.

 

PS2. Carl Barker lead is after Bass songs, due to great script by @Joey, and adding new columns in between could mess that up, and I think that's unnecessary.

[Mortalo]

About bass:

I believe that the problems lies with difficulty rating. I'm not going to lie, I always highly apreciated @@MilkmanDan's opinion on that, and I tried to rate as close to him as possible, still as guitar player I felt like giving 8 to a song that I'm getting 98% on a 1st run is odd. If we're gonna be more strict about ratings, then "Pour Some Sugar On Me rule"* can apply more often. I would like to see if it is possible for you to rate songs harshly in bass. Then we can make mulligan and see what happens. Limit in MasterClass is not really about MC, but about Advanced, and as stated before, we don't want to lower level participants deal with higher level, only because there were few better guys in MC (it's like saying that 14 teams from Primera Division should go to Segunda, only because they have no chance against Barcelona or Real Madrid in final standings).

Right now we have 98% x 3 or 99.5% x 1 in bass to level up, maybe pushing it to 98.5%? 99%? Or maybe scrap x3 rule all together?

 

*"Pour Some Sugar On Me rule" is rule made after ratings were done, it concerned to situation of easy songs being in higher class, Pour Some Sugar On Me bass is perfect example of beginner bass song, still it leveled up some bass players to MasterClass. With that rule particpant is not going to be leveled up on songs easier then his class, unless he wants to level up.