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Boss Katana & Rocksmith possible?

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10 replies to this topic

#1
Offline   Jondo

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Hi everyone,

 

does someone know if its possible to use the Boss Katana USB-Out to get a connection to Rocksmith?

I cant get it to work.... :(

 

 

I used the forum-search, but couldnt find something helpful.

 

Sorry for my english, im no native speaker.

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

 

Jondo



#2
Offline   jevs

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Did you ever get this to work via USB?

 

Edit to below: This was my original response, but the effects loop still has some options (and possibly the USB connection). I need to test more before I can really say what will or will not work. I did not know all the things you can modify within the software or other details on the hardware for the effects loop and how the USB communications from the amp to the PC worked......see more below this post.

 

I do know the Effects Loop "Send" will not work. I was hoping it would. Apparently this is switched on by having a plug in the "Return" jack .

If you hook loop out to the computer and then just put an open 1/4" jack into the "Return" it does come on, but I assume due to the open in the circuit it is too noisy to be usable. There may be a simple fix to be able to use this and get the grounds connected between the "Send" and "Return" or something, but I am not sure without seeing a schematic of the Katana 100.

A Y-cable might even work, basically connecting the "Return" and "Send" with a tap out to the computer, but I have not tried it. I am not sure what is active in the Rocksmith cable and how the impedance etc of things would work out.



#3
Offline   jevs

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It still may be possible to use the Katana with the computer and Rocksmith. I have found a lot more information about this thing and its enormous amount of capabilities.

It appears there are a couple things with the USB connection itself that might be usable. I have not tested this yet, but there is apparently input and output devices on Windows for the guitar input side and the after effects from the amp. These look like they can be used to play audio from the PC into the amp and to get a signal on the computer from the amp. 

Rocksmith now has the microphone ability, so you may be able to set one of these up to be used by Rocksmith as if it was  "USB microphone"

I read something that tones might be disabled in Rocksmith with the mic input, but I have to read more about that or try it??

There are also seemingly some cable-less options (hacks?) out on the net, that may have some possibilities also with these USB ins/outs of the amp that may or may not leave tones intact.

 

However, I also found out another thing with some great possible options. Apparently the effects loop "send" and "receive" are adjustable in the boss tones software! 

The Katana FX Loop is buffered on send and return and fed from the DSP by its own D/A and A/ D with programmable gains on send and return and configurable for either series or  parallel signal flow. It shows this on page 5 of the current manual. You can also set the position of the effects loop apparently.

I am not sure how it is set as default, but I bet it's serial which explains how I got it to work, but it hummed due to the open circuit. This is all adjustable in the software, so hooking the real tone cable right to the send jack may still have some hope of working with some adjustments in the Boss Tone Studio software.

 

I will try to post back once I get to try some of this......

 

S/R (SEND/RETURN)
These are settings for the EFFECT LOOP (SEND/RETURN) jacks.
Parameter Value Explanation
ON/OFF OFF, ON Turns this effect on/off.
POSITION POST AMP, POST
REV
Specifies the position at which the
external effect unit is connected within
the KATANA's effect chain.
MODE SERIES, PARALLEL Specifies whether the external effect unit
is connected in series or in parallel.
SEND LEVEL 0–100 Adjusts the volume of the output to the
external effects device.
RETURN LEVEL 0–100 Adjusts the volume of the input from the

external effects device.
* The S/R setting is valid if a plug is connected to the RETURN jack.

 

May still need a dummy plug in the return jack to turn this on....if settings make it usable. I will just stick a 1/2" male phone to RCA adapter in there or something just to activate the switching for testing. I will be testing this stuff....USB may still be a "cleaner" option (if it works).



#4
Offline   firekorn

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@jevs I don't own a Katana but i admire your level of research into this and i'll just schime in with what i know from RS side.

 

the microphone mode can use any windows input as long as it's set to 16bit 48kHz quality (it's quite literally the only requirement) but that will indeed disable ingame tone because it was designed primarly with acoustic in mind and having effect could possibly create unwanted feedback that could damage the user hearing or the monitor themself.

 

As for the no-cable crack option, you can find more info over the Rocksmith reddit but it should allow to use any USB input to replace the cable even if it can't be set to 16bit 48kHz, the only information needed the is the VID/PID of the USB device iirc but i haven't used it myself.


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#5
Offline   jevs

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Good info. From the "Read Me" on the drivers installation for Windows 10, it discusses changing the sample rate and buffer sizes for the "Katana Devices" to match whatever software, DAW, etc are being used. So, this should be adjustable. 

 

couple excerpts from the Read Me....

............Try adjusting the audio buffer size of the driver
If the size of the driver's audio buffer is too small, sound may not be produced, or it may be impossible to carry out normal playback and recording.
In such cases, you should refer to "Changing/checking driver settings," and increase the size of the buffer.

 

.............Cannot change the sample rate from Driver Settings/Application.
During playback or recording, the sample rate cannot be changed in the Driver Settings dialog box.
Change the sample rate within the currently-used application, or quit the application and then change the sample rate in the Driver Settings dialog box.
 
Are you using another application?
During playback or recording using another application, the sample rate cannot be changed.
 
Is the Windows Sound Control Panel open?
If the Windows Sound Control Panel is open, sometimes the sample rate cannot be changed.
 
If the Windows monitoring function is enabled, the sample rate cannot be changed.
Refer to "Could the Windows monitoring function be enabled?" and disable monitoring.
 
If the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth is used, the sample rate cannot be changed.
Do not use Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth.
 



#6
Offline   jevs

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Okay. For starters we need to clarify something:

 

My initial hum and noise I was perceiving when trying to use the Effects Loop Send to the Rocksmith cable was a mix of things not related to a real noise problem. It was actually caused by using a single pickup and Rocksmith having some distortion tones etc on. Mostly it was the tone settings in Rocksmith. Once I setup the  Rocksmith tone to be a clean sound with no pedals or effects in the software, then it went to being normal sounding. There is a little more pickup noise on a single coil, but if you mix two of the singles, then the extra buzz cleans up (using an SSS American Professional Strat). This is kind of expected, so not really a concern.

 

With that said, I have tested everything I can find with using the effects loop send port to get an output to the computer via the Rocksmith USB cable.

 

First of all nothing comes from the Effects Loop Send port unless you put a phono plug of some type into the return port just to activate the effects loop.

When you have the effects loop set to serial in Boss Tone Studio, then you do get an output to Rocksmith, but the amp will not output any sound from its speaker (normal for a serial effects loop since this leaves the signal path open with no return signal hooked up).

When you have the effects loop set to parallel, then you can have the amp making sound AND get sound to Rocksmith as expected.

 

So, you CAN use the Effects Loop Send port to work with Rocksmith and also use your amp with no ground loop noise etc! It sounds as good as plugging the Rocksmith right to the guitar (almost).  That is good news....but.....

Unfortunately, I cannot find any way to NOT have the Amplifier Section settings sent out to the Rocksmith cable. In other words you cannot get a direct tap from the input of the guitar. This means if you have the amp set to Crunch, Brown, gain turned up etc. That is all gonna get sent to the Rocksmith cable. This must all be part of the preamp section in the Amplifier as shown in the block diagram in the manual. This section is hard wired before the effects loop apparently.

According to the block diagram, you should be able set all your effects section stuff on the amp to be after the loop and not sent to rocksmith (Booster, Delay, Reverb, etc.) though.

So, this means your tone in Rocksmith is going to be altered however your Amplifers amp section is set. So, if you don't want to use the amplifiers speaker and instead listen to the tones in rock smith, your gonna need to have the amp setup to output as clean of a sound as you can before the effects section to mimic the output straight from your guitar. 

 

Now, if you just turn off the tones in Rocksmith and use only your amp for sound, then I do not know how much "distortion" from clean that is in the amp section might affect the response within Rocksmith. If you crank the gain up to max and set it to crunch or Brown and it still picks up okay then you may be fine. I have not tested this.

 

In my opinion, this is not as good as having a splitter before the input to the amp unfortunately (sending a clean signal right form the guitar to Rocksmith and the amp), but it does work with some caveats.

 

So, I am not satisfied with the method for myself. I have not tested using the USB stuff yet. There is still some possibility that might work out better, but then it may need some other "Hacks" like the no "cable patch" or using the microphone feature implemented for acoustics (which then does not work with tones in Rocksmith). The USB could still be viable and better though.

 

So, for myself I am at two options left to pursue. Some sort of an acceptable splitter (using a stomp box, DI Box, Lehle P-Split, Tuner pedal with Bypass etc.....or looking into the USB. The only other ports on the amp before the preamp are the Secondary USB according to the block diagram. 

 

Hope this info helps someone. I will post more if I pursue looking into utilizing the USB from the amp. Just picking a splitter before the amp is a whole ridiculous mess of choices....I was hoping the send loop was gonna be the end all, be all. It would be if it could only be before the preamp or if they could somehow send a clean signal past the preamp "Amplifier" settings to the effects loop send (possible software change?? Hard to say without seeing schematics of the amp.)



#7
Offline   firekorn

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You can find splitter with ground lift for around 100 or so $ and there's no way you'll get any issue at all.


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#8
Offline   jevs

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Yeah. I am exploring the amp still. Right now I am messing with the USB. I am getting clean audio from the Amps USB output to the computer and playing it via the computer speakers. The USB Secondary allows this just as the manual shows in the block diagram (clean and before the preamp or any alteration of the guitars input). It is before the "Amplifier" section of the amp even and it is nice and clean even while the amps speaker is playing whatever effect and distortion you want. The Primary USB output to the computer spits out just what your hearing from the amps speaker.

So, the computer has exactly what we need into Rocksmith just sitting there. Just have to figure out how to get it into Rocksmith. Using the Rocksmith's Microphone setting is no help. The Katana is being seen as a line input to the computer (not a microphone).

 

I believe the "No cable" mod would do the trick now if it is still a working patch. You could even send the Rocksmith audio back out to the amp with the guitar turned off and get your guitar (with amps effects) and the other audio (minus guitar) from Rocksmith just on the amplifier....(it looks like). You can set the Katana USB lines as audio playback devices on the computer. Should be able to inject this before the preamp or later down the chain.



#9
Offline   jevs

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I got it working! 2 cables for my entire setup. The USB from the amp to the computer, and the guitar cord from the guitar to the amp. That's it.

I can now use all the features within Rocksmith with a clean signal going into the game no matter what settings I want coming out of the amplifiers speaker. So you can use just the computer, just the amp, or the computer and the amp.

 

Okay. Lets see if I can explain this. It took me all night to figure out.

 

First of all you have to use the "No cable" patch. This is simplest method I found for that:

https://github.com/M...NoCableLauncher

 

That is it as far as software goes. Very simple.

Download this from that page and you will unzip two files.

NoCableLauncher-m-binary.rar (Lastest version with multiplayer support)

 

NoCableLauncher.exe & EditSettings.bat

 

Doesn't matter where you put them, just keep then in the same folder. No editing of any the installed files is needed.

 

Before you do anything with those files some things have to be setup first.

 

Of course you have to have your Katana Boss Tone Studio Software installed and all the drivers working etc. This all worked the first install when I got my amp no problem and as expected.

 

You also have to have your Rocksmith installed and working of course.

 

Without anything open (nothing accessing the Katana amp or it won't let you change this setting), go to the start menu apps and open Boss>Katana

 

This opens the Katana Drivers Settings.

You must change the sample rate to 48000 Hz. The default was 44000 Hz and you simply will not get any audio in Rocksmith with this value. Apply that change and close out the driver settings. If you cannot change this setting, then that means you have something open accessing the amp via USB or something locking it up from editing. I ran into this the first time because I had Boss Tone Studio open.

 

The next thing you have to do is go into your computers "Manage Audio Settings". Select the Recording tab. Set SECONDARY KATANA to the default device. You should have a green check mark on it once this is correct.

 

Disable PRIMARY KATANA. If you have anything else active in the recording tab you may have to disable it. Before I disabled this, Rocksmith kept thinking I had "More than one Real Tone Cable Connected".

 

Once you have done this, you should be able to run the EditSettings.bat file. This will pop up a window that lets you select the input device. You should not have to change anything here though if you followed my above advice. It should already show Player 1 Audio Device as Secondary Katana with the VID and PID it pulled in on it's own.

 

Hit the Save button. This will create a Settings.xml file in the folder that will be used by the NoCableLauncher.exe.

 

Once you have done this, just run NoCableLauncher.exe

 

It should launch into Rocksmith as normal. For whatever reason, I seem to always have a distortion tone set in Rocksmith when I load. Change that to something clean just so you can hear something closer to your real guitar sound.

 

On my setup for whatever reason I could not get quite enough volume for auto calibration to go high enough (yes, the guitar was turned up all the way). I ended up going into the Manual Gain Override in Rocksmith, turned it on and set it to 10dB. I could probably go a tad lower, but this is pretty good as is. I then went back to the tuner and opened the calibrator. The first part gives you a message that you have manual override set and that it is skipping that first part. However, it then goes into letting you check the setting. You can play hard and make sure it does not clip out at the top and make sure it mutes flat line. Mine was very good and finished the calibration. After that you go back to the tuner and you should be able to tune up.

 

I played a couple tries of a song and it detected fine. Now you can either mute your guitar in the game and just use the amp, or you can use just the computer (amp has to be on). You can also just use the game as is on the computer and mix in your amp in the background. Whatever you want!

 

There is one downside I found. You must re-enable the PRIMARY KATANA in the recordings tab of the sound settings, or you will not be able to communicate back to the amp using the Boss Tone Studio software. It needs access to that to communicate. That is the only annoyance I see so far. I am not sure if there is a workaround to make Rocksmith let you leave it active without seeing it as another faux Real Tone cable.

 

There may be a way to feed the games sounds over to the amp also via USB and for sure using the AUX IN via an audio cable, but I am not getting into that tonight.

 

If you want to use the computer sound and the games tones, you can also just add a little hair of ambient from the amp on the .5 Watt setting and it can help hide a little of the latency in the computers audio (if you have any).

 

I have to add that the Katana 100 amp is awesome so far. Very glad I sold my Marshal Valvestate and got this thing! I don't think you can touch anything like it for the bargain $350 price tag! (got mine a little cheaper)

 

I still may consider a Splitter before the amp. It just depends if the disabling of the other items in the Recording tab gets annoying or of I find a work around. Not having the extra Real tone cable routing around and a splitter is nice. This is a very clean/simple hardware setup without them. It also frees up a USB port on my computer. 



#10
Offline   Jondo

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Thanks a lot for sharing jevs !

I followed your instructions above and it`s working perfectly

 

So, no more excuses for not practicing i guess :-)



#11
Offline   imepicz92

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i followed jevs thing and it works great, thanks!!