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Chord length issue (again)

- - - - - Editor On Fire Chord Length Issue

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42 replies to this topic

#21
Offline   iminashi

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There is a FHP defined at the middle of the arpeggio. This will break it.

 

LnHC9IQ.png



#22
Offline   raynebc

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Good catch. I'm going to have to add checks to EOF for that. I assume the same type of problem would happen if there was a FHP change inside of a handshape phrase?

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#23
Offline   iminashi

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Yep, same thing with handshapes.



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#24
Offline   firekorn

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@iminashi Nice catch indeed, i assumed it was obvious that no FHP change should be inside an handshape/arpeggio marking so i didn't bother looking into this...


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#25
Offline   ShrillBear52

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There is a FHP defined at the middle of the arpeggio. This will break it.

 

LnHC9IQ.png

Omg, thank you! Yes,I didn't noticed that, I'll look at everything twice for now to not get this issues :D 


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#26
Offline   ShrillBear52

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OK,I updated eof, resnaped all 5 parts, the phrases are still shit so does the problems that I mentoned before (even with 3.2 DDC)

 the only difference is with the  bass arpeggio. Idk why eof has problems with the FHP change, so I had to delet that fhp and the arpeggio toks 6 or 5 frets to show (from the first to the sixth or fivth)


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#27
Offline   raynebc

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Turns out the FHP issue was not a problem with EOF, it doesn't put a change there when it auto-generates FHPs.

arpeggio toks 6 or 5 frets to show (from the first to the sixth or fivth)

I don't know what you mean by this.

#28
Offline   firekorn

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@raynebc FHP were obviously manually edited as i was the one that brought up the issue about FHP change inside an arpeggio/handshape cause it made no sense to generate such situation.

 

In @ShrillBear52 case i'm really not sure what issue are left... if you delete the FHP in the arpeggio marking just before 3:51 everything should be good...


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#29
Offline   ShrillBear52

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Turns out the FHP issue was not a problem with EOF, it doesn't put a change there when it auto-generates FHPs.
 

arpeggio toks 6 or 5 frets to show (from the first to the sixth or fivth)

I don't know what you mean by this.

 

https://drive.google...YkpFbGxSU191S1k


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#30
Offline   firekorn

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@ShrillBear52 That's because you've deleted the FHP 1 AND 2 in that picture while you should just have deleted the 2 and not the 1!

AFHt4DQ.png?1


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#31
Offline   ShrillBear52

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@raynebc FHP were obviously manually edited as i was the one that brought up the issue about FHP change inside an arpeggio/handshape cause it made no sense to generate such situation.

 

In @ShrillBear52 case i'm really not sure what issue are left... if you delete the FHP in the arpeggio marking just before 3:51 everything should be good...

What was that Handshape thing earlier??(I'm not sure that's why I'm asking)

 

The problems what is still appers: 

     1.)Chord sustains's highlited parts are not matching with the chord's sustain (only in DD)

https://drive.google...a0ZQdF9DaGc4Zmc

 

2.)the Part_Real_Guitar_22 (Rhythm) has chords that hasn't got highlited parts all the way (the pic. is not from the Real_Guitar_22 part, this was the Part_Real_Bass_22 what has a different issue now, but the idea is the same )

https://drive.google...X2Q5eXdjOElXenM

 

3.) Handshapes in Part_Real_Guitar(lead) and Part_Real_Guitar_Bonus(bouns lead) has issues with the handsahpes appering

https://drive.google...YVhGTlZ5X0lzTWc

 

4.)The phrases are not matchd with DD (just look any of these pictures at the Top of the part where it shows the DD then look at the events in the project) (and also it doesn't matter if I add phrases only at once when I define the sections also ("also add as RS phrase") I still don't know how to manage it correctly,because I always get these results.

 

5.) At Part_Real_Bass_22 (Bonus Rhythm) the A#minor chords are not behaving correctly at some points.What I mean with this is that the chord strumm pattern is not appering as a repeated one, altough they all have "High Dens." on them. (except the first one of course) e.g: At 1:06 the 10th chord is not appering as a repeated pattern and it has "HD" on it.


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#32
Offline   ShrillBear52

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@ShrillBear52 That's because you've deleted the FHP 1 AND 2 in that picture while you should just have deleted the 2 and not the 1!

AFHt4DQ.png?1

Sorry but it's not quite clear what you said,could you explain it ??

  Also,I didn't had 3th FHP on the second 3th note on the E string (not in the older and not in the current one)


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#33
Offline   firekorn

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1) that's because there's a new section starting which break the handshape, if it's only happening with DD, i would suggest to use a higher phrase length parameter.

 

2) It's likely the same kind of issue than the bass part, a new FHP definition will break the handshape.

 

3) Likely a section issue again but with the project you shared there :http://customsforge....in/#entry242167 it shouldn't happen

 

4) if you use DDC, this is likely due to a low phrase length parameter whan applying DDC. It has already been mentionned many times in that topic.

 

5) Could also be a DDC related issue (section thingy) as i doubt it would behave weirdly without it looking at the project.

 

The screenshot is the project you shared with us. If it isn't the right one, we can't help you properly... You likely deleted the FHP that i mark as "1" and the one marked as "2" in that screenshot but you should have only deleted the one marked "2" and you would have obtained the desired result.

 

At one point, you are getting overwhelmed with issue that you can't deal with them anymore. The project doesn't have the time signature defined properly, the first beat has a section which will also cause issue. I have 2 warning when saving the project you gave us too (one also being about a handshape crossing a section...).

 

I appreciate all the effort you deploy but i seriously think you should take it slow and try to understand all the details that you are messing with one by one instead of going all over the place.


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#34
Offline   ShrillBear52

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1) that's because there's a new section starting which break the handshape, if it's only happening with DD, i would suggest to use a higher phrase length parameter.

 

2) It's likely the same kind of issue than the bass part, a new FHP definition will break the handshape.

 

3) Likely a section issue again but with the project you shared there :http://customsforge....in/#entry242167 it shouldn't happen

 

4) if you use DDC, this is likely due to a low phrase length parameter whan applying DDC. It has already been mentionned many times in that topic.

 

5) Could also be a DDC related issue (section thingy) as i doubt it would behave weirdly without it looking at the project.

 

The screenshot is the project you shared with us. If it isn't the right one, we can't help you properly... You likely deleted the FHP that i mark as "1" and the one marked as "2" in that screenshot but you should have only deleted the one marked "2" and you would have obtained the desired result.

 

At one point, you are getting overwhelmed with issue that you can't deal with them anymore. The project doesn't have the time signature defined properly, the first beat has a section which will also cause issue. I have 2 warning when saving the project you gave us too (one also being about a handshape crossing a section...).

 

I appreciate all the effort you deploy but i seriously think you should take it slow and try to understand all the details that you are messing with one by one instead of going all over the place.

1.)Hmm,it's quite stupid if a section is starting just at a specific chord and that chord has a long handshape/sustian it this issue appers. But what can or SHOULD do in this case other than not using DD? Also,it has been said,that If I use 3.2 DDC then this shouldn't be a problem and I did it but nothing realy changed...

 

2.) There isn't any new FHP at that point other than the begininng of the first chord.(Again,that is not that specific picture that I currently have,but I'll provid that one tomorrow)

 

3.)Yes,but It is a problem I only changed the bass arpeggio and resnaped all 5 aranngement since that project that I sent a link for it.

I could send a link for the chart to see it and not only the project (If it needs to )

 

4.)Then what should I do to get a normal DD for each part? Should I change setting when I add DD for the arrangements?

 

5.)Could be but it's not,I've check with and without DD the case is the same....

 

 

I don't know about the picture ........... There was only one FHP at that arpeggio and I was confused why in your pic. has to FHPs.

  What I did is I changed that first FHP from 3 to 1 and got that result at the bass arp..

 

What do you mean by not having the time signature defined properly? And what section are you referring in wich arrangement?

Also,I don't get any warning if I save the project other than "this note is specified  as using the index finger but the frethand position is on a different fret" (With the newest eof)

 

I'm getting realy tired by this point with all those issues , so you're right.

 

  I'm starting to think that maybe I should stop creating CDLC. I just don't feel motivated like when I started to creat,even I have many songs to do and update.Something is missing so it's very likely that I won't even bother even with this song


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#35
Offline   firekorn

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As i said, the DDC issue is likely related to the "phrase length" value you defined when using DDC. i can't help you more than that without all the files to actually try it myself on my own setup.

 

Just saying "it isn't" doesn't help, i think it is and i saw case of that issue inside the project you sent us, if you think it's something else, sure but you will need to prove it before simply rejecting our help....

 

If you have a project that is different to what you gave us, discussing and debugging will be incredibly complicated as we will see different things that doesn't correspond to what you actually use which might gives different result than what we can expect from the project we have.

 

We can help you but we'll need to take things step by step and if you keep refusing to take our opinion and trying to actually apply what we ask you to, this topic will go nowhere.


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#36
Offline   ShrillBear52

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As i said, the DDC issue is likely related to the "phrase length" value you defined when using DDC. i can't help you more than that without all the files to actually try it myself on my own setup.

 

Just saying "it isn't" doesn't help, i think it is and i saw case of that issue inside the project you sent us, if you think it's something else, sure but you will need to prove it before simply rejecting our help....

 

If you have a project that is different to what you gave us, discussing and debugging will be incredibly complicated as we will see different things that doesn't correspond to what you actually use which might gives different result than what we can expect from the project we have.

 

We can help you but we'll need to take things step by step and if you keep refusing to take our opinion and trying to actually apply what we ask you to, this topic will go nowhere.

I'm not rejection or refusind anything, I'm just not realy understanding what you or someone else said and that's why I keep asking something.Like "how should I properly define phrases " or else. 

  The reason why you don't understanding what I'm saying is most likely  that I can't realy express my self more then 

    I alreary told.

    

But I try my best as I could, 

 

like, this is the current project   https://www.dropbox....e end.eof?dl=0  ( still the only difference is the FHP change at the bass arpeggio)

 

But please,If you have any issue understand me then just tell me,and I'll try to explain it in a clearer.


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#37
Offline   raynebc

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For now, it might be worth removing all fret hand positions from the project and letting EOF create them automatically when saving the XML files. When you add FHPs to the project and then continue to edit it, it causes several of the problems you've brought up in this thread (arpeggio phrases ending early, chord boxes more than 4 frets wide). I would recommend getting the chart working to your liking without DDC, and then you can add difficulty levels. Troubleshooting multiple problems with a multi-difficulty chart is complicated.

#38
Offline   firekorn

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Okay so with your latest project :

 

1) still a DD specific issue caused by a low phrase length parameter

 

2) I can still find at least one case where you have unnecessary FHP definition that might cause Handshape display issue (note that i can find on many occasion 2 FHP at the same fret value which have no reason to be)

SIDVNXX.png

 

3) Not sure if it's a FHP or a phrase length issue with DD, but as i said in "2)" i can also find occasion of 2 FHP of the same value that aren't separated by a section which can easily cause that kind of issue

 

4) That's only because you use a low phrase length parameter, i'm really not sure how else can i explain this

40Kz8d1.png

 

5) At this point i think it might be a FHP issue more than a section issue but both are likely to be conflicting making debugging a mess as long as you use DDC while trying to figure it out

TSzd4X0.png


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#39
Offline   ShrillBear52

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Okay so with your latest project :

 

1) still a DD specific issue caused by a low phrase length parameter

 

2) I can still find at least one case where you have unnecessary FHP definition that might cause Handshape display issue (note that i can find on many occasion 2 FHP at the same fret value which have no reason to be)

SIDVNXX.png

 

3) Not sure if it's a FHP or a phrase length issue with DD, but as i said in "2)" i can also find occasion of 2 FHP of the same value that aren't separated by a section which can easily cause that kind of issue

 

4) That's only because you use a low phrase length parameter, i'm really not sure how else can i explain this

40Kz8d1.png

 

5) At this point i think it might be a FHP issue more than a section issue but both are likely to be conflicting making debugging a mess as long as you use DDC while trying to figure it out

TSzd4X0.png

1.)Ok,I think i get it now.Honestly,I didn't know what "phrase length" was and didn't noticed this feature in the ToolKit, sorry, I should have askd it before I post it.  

 

2.)I don't think that I added FHP to that specific point where you markd with the red x. But at some points I did it on purpose,because in my last song what I made I had an issue with it.Some of the chords had wide appearance.(what I mean by that, is the chords apperd more than 4 fret wide. example: https://drive.google...DNieVhhMElqM2M)that's the reason why some of the chords have more FHPs then it should be (like at the second intro phrase in the Real_Bass part)

 

 

3.)I'm not sure about it either,I'll try with a higher pharse length and see if theres any change.

 

 

4.)So I should use 16 as pharse length setting? (what does this feature do anyway??...just asking)

 

5.)I already explaind it why I did it in "2.)" in anyway,I'll remove it and see if there is any difference.

 

 

Also,thank you for helping me with all of these I'm appreciate it! 


My Customs

 

The reasons why most of my customs are not updated yet:

1.)I'm lazy to do it because I have no motivation for it

2.)I'm not at my computer

3.)I'm working on a song that I haven't made it yet

4.)I don't have any song to work on it

 

 

G7SOxFY.jpg


#40
Offline   firekorn

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For your FHP issue, delete everything and see how it goes, if then you need to make adjustement, first let EOF generate them all for you and then adjust them to your liking but you clearly lack some understanding on how the feature works and what it controls so i would suggest to leave EOF do it's thing for now.

 

For the Phrase Length parameter you need to understand one thing you clearly don't yet :

Bar and measures.

 

Music indicate rhythm in a very formatted way that use time signature and BPM. The BPM indicate how many beats there is in a minute so it will change how far beats are from one another and measure which is a group of beats and define the mathematical value that can countain a beat.

 

In a 4/4 time signature (the most commonly used and known one), the second number indicate the unit a beat can countain, 4 represent the quarter note so one beat will contain one and only one quarter note while the first number indicate the number of note there is in one measure.

 

So in a 4/4 time signature at 60 BPM, there's 4 quarter note per measure and you have 60 beats in a minute so each beats are 1 seconds apart from each other which also means that a quarter note will last a seconds.

 

Without time signature, you can't precisely indicate where you are in the song when a beat last 0.532 seconds and that you are at the 259 beats. It's unpractical, so you give number to the measure which allow you to say that you will start on the 3rd beat of the 64th measure and everyone will be able to see on the music sheet where it is more easily.

 

Another even better way of displaying par of a song is to have specific notation for important part of the song. In a standard song with an intro, a verse, a chorus, another verse, a chorus, a solo and an outro. You will put letter on the measure where each part starts (that would represent the section in Rocksmith) the intro goes from the 1st measure to the 8th, the verse from the 9th to the 32th measure, etc... And phrase in Rocksmith should indicate repeating pattern inside a section, if the verse is 2 times the same 8 measure, you can put a phrase on the 1st beat of the 9th measure of the verse to indicate that you are playing the same kind of thing again.

 

Now the phrase length parameter allow DDC to create those phrase based on a define number of measure. With a phrase length parameter at 2, DDC will add a phrase every 2 measure. With a phrase length at 16, DDC will add a phrase every 16 measure. But since DDC isn't that dumb it looks for existing phrase and don't touch them if they already exist, so every time DDC see a phrase, it will start counting again.

 

So if you placed phrase every 8 measure in EOF, when you use DDC with a phrase length parameter of 2, DDC will still create phrase but if the phrase length is set to 16, it won't.

 

And since your CDLC doesn't have any time signature defined, i'm not sure if DDC will actually count the beats or if it will assume a 4/4 time signature, but in any case it's bad and it also means that you have no idea if the section and phrase you placed are on the first beat of a measure or not which is bad in itself.


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